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    New chair advice for a noob. Considering a ZRA

    I apologize in advance for this LONG post, but also thank all those who are willing to help!

    Hey everyone! My first post here, though I've lurked and stumbled back onto the site several times over the years. Some background: I've been a T10/T11/T12 (I actually don't remember) para for almost 23 years now, but have kind of kept my disability at arm's length over all these years (as in I haven't stayed connected with this side of the world, be it people, advances, needs, or equipment). Now that I'm finally configuring a new wheelchair myself (the Quickie Revolution I'm using now got busted up in a plane's cargo hold), I'm starting to realize how so very little I know.

    I have a fairly strong core and very good upper body strength, and want a wheelchair that I can use as an everyday, but still be active in. I do also drive, so being able to get it in and out of the car (Honda Accord) is important - the Revolution has been super easy in that respect, as it folds up and all, but something lighter and more cushy would be nice. To that end, I've been debating getting a ZRA (I don't think I my chair well enough to get a ZR), and have spent a good five+ hours over the last two days scouring and searching past threads for information regarding these chairs. While I've picked up a lot of info, I still have some questions (and a lot of misgivings, given the quality issues I've read about here), so I thought I'd ask all of you experts who've actually embraced and gotten actively involved with their disability!

    Customization is as follows (measurements are based off my current Revolution):

    Frame Finishes: Satin
    Color Anodizing Package: Black
    Rear Seat Width: 16"
    Front Seat Width: No Taper
    Seat Depth: 16"
    Front Seat Height: 19"
    Rear Seat Height: 15"
    Front Angle: 80°
    Debating a 85° instead because I miss having that clearance around my chair, but is there anything I need to watch out for with that? I keep seeing mentions of +1", but don't know what that refers to.
    Seat to Footrest: 14"
    Footrest Type: Angle Adjustable Footrest
    Debating between the standard angle adjustable versus the titanium open loop or flat ABS. Suggestions?
    Front End Type & Footrest Width: Standard Front End - 13.5" No Taper
    What's the advantage of the V-front end? I tend to keep my feet further apart as it is, and I feel like the V-front might add extra pressure on my knees (which kind of roll inward/rub against each other)
    Seat Back Type: Folding Titanium Adjustable Height
    TiShaft Back Release Bars: Aluminum
    Are the titanium/CF ones really going to make a huge difference here?
    Seat Back Height: No Push Handles - Medium - 15"
    I actually very rarely lean against my seat back, as I tend to seat leaned slightly forward of it. Not sure if that just means it's not adjusted correctly, but it hasn't bothered me at all. I AM wondering if should get a shorter one, but I do use it for a backpack (that already drags dangerously close to the ground as is)
    Seat Back Options: 4" Deep Backrest Rigidizer Bar
    Seat Back Angle: 92°
    My current one is set at 90°, I believe. I'm assuming the higher the angle the further back it leans?
    Center of Gravity: 2"
    Rear Wheel Spacing: 1"
    Camber: 4°
    Camber Tube Type: Carbon Fiber Camber Tube
    I know there were a lot of issues with previous versions of this, but they've been mostly addressed by Tilite now right? Should I still get a aluminum/titanium backup?
    Front Casters: 5" x 1.5" Plastic Wheel w/ Poly Tire
    Front Forks: TiLite Standard Forks w/ Titanium Fork Stems
    Okay, so what I REALLY want here are the FrogLeg Unitines and the 5" x 1.5" soft rolls. I know a lot of folks here have swapped them out, but I'm still not 100% sure what configuration is necessary to allow for that. Are the above two correct?
    Rear Wheels: 24" Black Spinergy LX
    Axles: Titanium Quick Release
    Titanium only because I think it'd be stronger and lighter, but is it necessary?
    Rear Wheel Tire: 24" Solid Herringbone Tread
    I know, I know, solids, ew. I live in SF, and the streets are hazardous - I was getting 2-3 flats a week back on my pneumatics!
    Handrims: Aluminum - Long Tab
    Wheel Locks: Black Aluminum Scissor Lock
    Upholstery Colors: Black
    Back Upholstery: Tension Adjustable by Straps
    Seat Upholstery: Tension Adjustable Bolt-On
    Seat Cushion: ROHO High Profile Quadtro
    This is what I'm currently using, so I have to see if Tilite offers this, since it's not on the order form.
    Side Guards: Aluminum Rigid Removable - Standard
    Again, is CF really necessary/useful here? And how do the small and standard sizes compare?
    Calf Strap: Bodypoint Padded Velcro Adjustable - Large

    Again, thanks SO much for taking the time to read and help out! I'll post a photo of me in my current busted chair when I get a chance. For now, I'm heading off to bed

    #2
    Anyone?

    Comment


      #3
      This thread must have slipped by, faji tama. We have lots of experts here, they'll answer when they see this thread. I learn something every day it seems. Welcome to CC.
      Please donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org.
      Copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

      Thanks!

      Comment


        #4
        I hope so rdf, and thanks for the welcome! I've definitely been learning a lot since I started actively reading here

        Comment


          #5
          Thread noted.

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Faji, I have a ZRA and I like it. I also scoured past threads looking at pictures and specs of other chairs. Doing my homework paid off, my chair was a perfect fit for me since I didn't have to make any adjustments. I've since added an ADI back and round betty wheels. Good Luck.
            A dolla makes me holla, honey boo boo! - borrowed from Honey boo boo child

            Comment


              #7
              Hi & Welcome to CC. I just got my ZRA in September. I love it. Very comfy and smooth. I have the frog legs and I will never go back. A lot of people here don't like them but I love it! I drive the Toyota Venza SUV and my ZRA fits in perfectly. I drove an 09 Honda Accord before the new Toyota and it fit great in there as well. Good luck to you!
              DFW TEXAS- T-10 since March 20th, 1994

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                Front Angle: 80°
                Debating a 85° instead because I miss having that clearance around my chair, but is there anything I need to watch out for with that? I keep seeing mentions of +1", but don't know what that refers to.
                I have an 80-deg front because I wanted 6" casters. I have since found 80 is right for me because of arthritis in my knees (they ache when tucked tighter). My maneuverability is fine (but I've never used a tighter front angle).

                about +1": TiLite starts the front bend closer to the seat than other manufacturers, so if you like extra frame in front of your seat to grab onto for transfers, order extra inches between the front of your seat and the beginning of the bend: +1, +2, etc.


                Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                TiShaft Back Release Bars: Aluminum
                Are the titanium/CF ones really going to make a huge difference here?
                I don't think so.


                Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                Seat Back Angle: 92°
                My current one is set at 90°, I believe. I'm assuming the higher the angle the further back it leans?
                yes


                Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                Axles: Titanium Quick Release
                Titanium only because I think it'd be stronger and lighter, but is it necessary?
                I believe ti axles are actually slightly heavier than ss, but stronger. Do you jump curbs/steps frequently? If not, the ss will probably be just fine.

                Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                Wheel Locks: Black Aluminum Scissor Lock
                I strongly suggest hub locks: surelocks or D's. Order no brakes through TiLite; order hub locks separately; install them when they arrive (or have DME install them).

                Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                Seat Cushion: ROHO High Profile Quadtro
                This is what I'm currently using, so I have to see if Tilite offers this, since it's not on the order form.
                Order it separately if TiLite won't provide it.

                Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                Side Guards: Aluminum Rigid Removable - Standard
                Again, is CF really necessary/useful here? And how do the small and standard sizes compare?
                CF sideguards weigh about 1.0#; aluminum sideguards weigh about 1.5#. . . you decide. (note: I've never had CF sideguards, so I don't know if other advantages exist.)

                Here're my standard sideguards with 14.5" RSH, 3" COG, and 24" rear wheels.


                Hope this helps.
                Chas
                TiLite TR3
                Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                <
                UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                Comment


                  #9
                  Don't waste time with a ZRA

                  Get an Icon.
                  /forum/showthread.php?t=170544

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Not everyone can afford an Icon. Nor can everyone fit into one, either, as I discovered to my disappointment.

                    So it's nice, but not an option for everyone.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Chasmengr, that's not your true back angle, is it?
                      Please donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org.
                      Copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

                      Thanks!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I just got my ZRA 2 in October and have loved every minute of it. I owned the now-discontinued EVO for 4 years prior. 2 of the best chairs I have ever had and I have had 3 Quickie 2's and a Quickie GP (worst put together piece of crap I ever owned) before this.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by rdf View Post
                          Chasmengr, that's not your true back angle, is it?
                          Yes, it is. I have it set as far forward as it will go. Realize it's a soft back, so even though the uprights are leaning forward, the fabric is not.
                          Chas
                          TiLite TR3
                          Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
                          I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

                          "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
                          <
                          UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Got it, thanks.
                            Originally posted by chasmengr View Post
                            Yes, it is. I have it set as far forward as it will go. Realize it's a soft back, so even though the uprights are leaning forward, the fabric is not.
                            Please donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org.
                            Copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

                            Thanks!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                              Customization is as follows (measurements are based off my current Revolution):
                              Rear Seat Width: 16"
                              Front Seat Width: No Taper
                              Seat Depth: 16"
                              Front Seat Height: 19"
                              Rear Seat Height: 15"
                              Front Angle: 80°
                              Debating a 85° instead because I miss having that clearance around my chair, but is there anything I need to watch out for with that? I keep seeing mentions of +1", but don't know what that refers to.
                              Seat to Footrest: 14"
                              Even if you select the standard TiLite 80 degree front frame, you need to be aware that measurements taken directly off of your Revolution will not translate into accurate TiLite specs without doing some interpretation first.

                              TiLite's standard frame is shorter because they normally start the bend for the front frame at the front edge of the seat upholstery. Quickie's "Classic" frames and Invacare/Top End frames start the bend ~1.5" in front of the upholstery. As a result, the TiLite frame will not only be shorter, the footrest will also be in closer...



                              Here's a comparison of that difference on an 80 degree frame from both manufacturers...



                              The "+1" included in the thread titles for many of the TiLite's I have posted here refers to the "Frame Depth Longer or Shorter Than Seat Depth" option. TiLite currently has an MSRP of $150 for this option, but I frequently find it necessary to go with a longer frame for the following reasons:
                              The additional tubing in front of the upholstery is needed to provide a grab point for repositioning or transfers. Depending on rear wheel size and COG, it may also be necessary to clear the wheel during transfers and to fit certain types of wheel locks.

                              If the end user has been satisfied with the fit of existing chair produced by another manufacturer, adding an additional 1 to 1.5" will result in a frame which will have similar dimensions.

                              On seat depths of 16" or less, the additional wheelbase provided by the longer frame increases the dynamic forward stability of the chair making it much less likely to endo over pavement irregularities.
                              When determining frame angle and length, the first thing you need to do is ensure your footrest will be where you want it at your optimal seat depth. If you can determine that, determining the rest becomes simply a matter of deciding how you want the frame tubing to get from the front of the upholstery to the footrest.

                              If your know what needs to be different on your Revolution, you can use something I call the "Schulte Dimension" as a reference to compare your chair to a CAD drawing for your proposed chair. It is the distance from the front of your back post to the front of your footrest....




                              TiLite will provide the first CAD at no charge, but you have to specifically request this dimension in the drawing.

                              It is my hope that someday, TiLite will not only include this measurement in all CAD drawings, but that they also make the 1" longer frame a "No Charge Option".

                              I tend to recommend 85 degree frame angles with a 1" longer frame over an 80 degree angle. It provides better static vertical stability. 80 degrees or less may become necessary when footrest clearance or limited knee flexion become issues. On both of these Series 1 ZRa's, the wheelbase is roughly identical and the footrest is in roughly the same location relative the the front of the upholstery. The front frame tubing, however, takes a different route to get to the same place. Which is likely to be the easier transfer?



                              If the front frame angle of your Revolution is truly 80 degrees, I would think 80 degrees +1 or 2" or 85 degrees + 2 or 3" would yield a similar frame configuration on a TiLite.

                              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                              Footrest Type: Angle Adjustable Footrest
                              Debating between the standard angle adjustable versus the titanium open loop or flat ABS. Suggestions?
                              I'm partial to the titanium with ABS cover. It weighs less than the angle adjustable and doesn't have the hard edges. It is also allows for a FreeWheel to be used without having to "pin" the footplate to prevent rotation.

                              I also prefer the ABS cover to the tubular open loop because the additional surface area helps keep your feet in pace when going over pavement irregularities. This will be more of an issue than it currently is on your Revolution because of how energy from impacts gets transmitted through a cantilevered frame. I ordered the titanium open loop footrest on my ZRc and I ended up fabricating my own ABS cover.

                              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                              Front End Type & Footrest Width: Standard Front End - 13.5" No Taper
                              What's the advantage of the V-front end? I tend to keep my feet further apart as it is, and I feel like the V-front might add extra pressure on my knees (which kind of roll inward/rub
                              against each other)
                              Doesn't the Revolution have a V front? Most here have some taper in their front frame. The key to getting good lower extremity positioning is getting the correct footrest spacing and the right seat-to-footrest. If your knees touch each other, I would think having too much footrest spacing would cause them to become windswept to one side.

                              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                              Center of Gravity: 2"
                              Rear Wheel Spacing: 1"
                              Camber: 4°
                              Camber Tube Type: Carbon Fiber Camber Tube
                              I know there were a lot of issues with previous versions of this, but they've been mostly addressed by Tilite now right? Should I still get a aluminum/titanium backup?
                              With 4 degrees of camber, why not go with .75" rear wheel spacing and get the "No Charge Option" extra spacer to increase wheel spacing?

                              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                              Front Casters: 5" x 1.5" Plastic Wheel w/ Poly Tire
                              Front Forks: TiLite Standard Forks w/ Titanium Fork Stems
                              Okay, so what I REALLY want here are the FrogLeg Unitines and the 5" x 1.5" soft rolls. I know a lot of folks here have swapped them out, but I'm still not 100% sure what configuration is necessary to allow for that. Are the above two correct?
                              Yes
                              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                              Rear Wheels: 24" Black Spinergy LX
                              Axles: Titanium Quick Release
                              Titanium only because I think it'd be stronger and lighter, but is it necessary?
                              Titanium is noticeably lighter, but may not be stronger (not available with the HD option). If you fit in a 16x16 chair, I don't think strength is an issue.
                              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post
                              Rear Wheel Tire: 24" Solid Herringbone Tread
                              I know, I know, solids, ew. I live in SF, and the streets are hazardous - I was getting 2-3 flats a week back on my pneumatics!
                              Handrims: Aluminum - Long Tab

                              Wheel Locks: Black Aluminum Scissor Lock
                              The black aluminum scissor may not work particularly well because of your seat depth. There is a good chance the crosstube under the seat will interfere.

                              Originally posted by faji_tama View Post

                              Side Guards: Aluminum Rigid Removable - Standard
                              Again, is CF really necessary/useful here? And how do the small and standard sizes compare?
                              CF are noticeable lighter. The small size would probably not provide adequate wheel coverage with a 15" rear STF height.
                              Last edited by SCI_OTR; 11 Dec 2011, 7:33 PM. Reason: Re-Loaded Pics

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