Icon Product Shots

[t8burst]

Hey Jeff,

Is Icon going to be at the San Jose Abilities Expo? I looked on their website and don't see you: http://www.abilitiesexpo.com/expo/ne...px?show_id=117

[JeffAdams]

@t8burst - we absolutely will be at the Abilities show in San Jose, and we'll have some discounted floor demo models there for sale.

[My395]

@rolling01au:

I just nearly coated my monitor with coffee....what a great start to the morning.

We at Icon Wheelchairs also wish you well, kind sir.

Thanks for the über-honest comment - odd way to send your best wishes, but I guess this is the internet, after all.

Jeff,

I was out riding a One Off handcycle with someone else about a week ago. This guy on a regular mountain bike rides by and says "Wow, riding that thing must totally suck after a while". Ha! I laughed out loud.

He was so right and so wrong at the same time. It is all about perspective and how you look at things.

Your new chair looks awesome. I'm sitting here looking at my less than six month old chair with dimensions that need some tweaking. It's close but not perfect. If there were an Icon sitting in front of me right now, I would be tweaking it to get it dial in perfectly for me right now. That simply is not going to happen with my current chair.

Best of luck with the business. Hope to get a chance to try one sometime.

[stephen212]

Jeff, Looking at the close-up pics of the fork assembly I noticed that there isn't a cap covering the upper bearing. If there's any concern about moisture or grime seeping in, you might consider adding a protective "dust" cap.

[JeffAdams]

Good eyes.

Those Unitines are ones I got from Mark in Houston specifically to do testing with, and he didn't have any caps with him - this chair headed straight for destruction testing on the rollers after the photo shoot, and as dust caps weren't needed, we just didn't put any on.

The fit/finish stuff is really important to us, so there's caps on everything, none of the bolts rust, and all the sharp and pointy bits are rounded and finished.

Mark's new unitines also have an O-ring built in to act as an additional protective layer, and to reduce an castor flutter that might start to happen as a wheel wears down - he didn't specifically say so, but from the way he was talking, it seemed that he's trying to make sure that FL wheels are assured the longest lifetime possible.

[SCI_OTR]

Good eyes.
Mark's new unitines also have an O-ring built in to act as an additional protective layer, and to reduce an castor flutter that might start to happen as a wheel wears down - he didn't specifically say so, but from the way he was talking, it seemed that he's trying to make sure that FL wheels are assured the longest lifetime possible.

Lest anyway speculate that Mark is trying to copy the design of the SlipStream fork, he has been working on the new version before he even knew that a FLAHSR caster wouldn't fit on a SlipStream's caster axle because because of the R6 bearing. (I called him the same day I verified the R6 bearing issue and he mentioned it was being developed). The new UniTines are supposed to be less-susceptible to bearing corrosion by sealing out moisture (To me, that is the same thing as extending the life of the fork itself since I've found it impossible to replace the bearings without gouging key surfaces).

[grommet]

@t8burst - we absolutely will be at the Abilities show in San Jose, and we'll have some discounted floor demo models there for sale.

Now that is something I hadn't heard! Everyday I've been looking forward to the show, think GF is tired or hearing about me wanting the Icon. Discount though eh? Very interesting (rubbing hand together).

I can't wait to see the chair and try it out. If it's light and strong and doesn't come loose at all the adjustment points frequnetly (my huge worry), I would like get it.

One thing I haven't been able to get over and sorry to say it but, I think it looks pretty bad. It's the upsweep on the lower front frame. Just bulges up out of nowhere and looks nasty to me. I don't know how else the problem can be solved - there needs to be some support there, I mean what's going to keep my knees in otherwise?

What I'm worried about is that right after I buy my Icon with every cent I'll ever have, you'll come out with an improved version a few months later and I'll be kicking myself. You can't have everything at the same time I guess .. actually I think that is what the Icon is trying to prove - you pretty much can.

Never thought a Tilite would be my back-up chair. It just may be that my very beloved TR is going on a shelf.

Really looking forward to the show. I'm hoping I can try the chair with some adjustments to fit me and maybe there will even be an obstacle to take the chair over, some stairs maybe?

See you at the show :-)

[JeffAdams]

@grommet:

There will not be a "new and improved" Icon that surfaces in the few months after we start to deliver in October, I promise.

We will be coming out with improved/lighter/stronger parts over time, but part of our philosophy of modularity is to prevent exactly what you're talking about - the plan is for all of our parts/models to be interchangeable - so if in a year, the bike world out of the blue comes out with the cat's ass of all shocks and the one you get today, even though it's awesome today becomes yesterdays technology, you can upgrade the new shock onto the Icon, because any shock they come out with will be interchangeable with the current offerings in the bike world. That's the way the bike world works - any new handlebars, or brakes, or shocks, or seats or whatever will always fit, because they standardized the way things attach.

We have the exact same philosophy - anything we come out with in a month or a year will be compatible with today's model.

The Icon is trying to prove that you can have everything - either right now, all at once, or over time. A good example is our laminate seat vs. carbon seat - it's a steep upcharge, but with the extra cost comes a corresponding weight advantage - by that I mean, if you pay more for the carbon, there is a significant weight advantage that you gain. To be clear, the upcharge is because it costs us so much more to build in carbon than in laminate.

The way we build though, if today what you can afford is the laminate seat, you still get exactly the same functionality but there is a weight penalty. If in a year you can afford to upgrade, all you have to do is upgrade the seatpan - it's not a whole new chair. You can buy the base level chair, and upgrade it every three months, one part at a time, as you can afford to, and end up with the best iteration we offer. This was our design reaction to people telling us that they could only get approved for a k0005 chair, but wanted/needed a k0009 - no other manufacturer lets you use the funding available to you to buy the most affordable chair they offer, and then upgrade it over time, piece by piece, to the best/lightest/usually-most-expensive-for-a-reason chair.

The way we design isn't an accident - it's two guys who use wheelchairs who spend almost every minute of the day thinking about how to make wheelchairs, partnered with the best manufacturing facility in the world, listening to other people who use, prescribe, and sell wheelchairs.

[stephen212]

Have you looked into designing retractable, seat-mounted transfer handles? The ones mounted to the caster wing (illustrated in post #12) look cumbersome and ungainly.

Where on the frame will you be splashing the "ICON" logo?

[JGNI]

What is the lowest rear seat to floor height achievable with suspension still functioning (although with a limited range I guess)?

BTW, production model already looking better than renderings or prototype. Any high-res pics somewhere?

[Donno]

@grommet: I think that you will find that the upswept front frame does not look nearly as bad with a person in the chair. I doubt that many (or any) of us have seen that design, and it does not look 'normal', and therefore ugly. I remember that I thought that the '57 ford with the big round taillights was butt ugly (yeah, I'm older than dirt) but I loved it once I got used to it. Same with the bullet nose Studebaker.

[-scott-]

Any high-res pics somewhere?

each image on the home page & the photos page of the website will enlarge.

[jschism]

@scott- you have one with you out there?

[JeffAdams]

What is the lowest rear seat to floor height achievable with suspension still functioning (although with a limited range I guess)?

BTW, production model already looking better than renderings or prototype. Any high-res pics somewhere?

Thanks for the kind words on the look.

We did the swing-arm axle in part to accomodate the low seat to floor preferred by some - the extra room in the middle by not having the axle go all the way across lets us get down quite low, but it's hard to say a specific height, because it depends on the COG also - the further back you sit, the lower you can sit also. Here's the study we did:




@donno - the bullet nose Studebaker is one of my all time faves.

I think you're right - to be honest, the front end had to grow on me too, and seeing it in person made a huge difference to me.

Not that this really matters, but Azure magazine is doing an article on us in an upcoming issue - they're a magazine devoted to design and architecture, and the aesthetics are specifically one of the things that they're excited about - the reason I mention it is because it goes to one of your points, that we've all been looking at the same thing for 20 years in terms of the "look" of chairs, so anything new can be "jarring" to our eyes that are trained and used to seeing one similar shape. Point being that people with "fresh eyes" who have no preconceived notion of what a wheelchair should look like think it's an aesthetically pleasing design - for what it's worth.

On the topic of aesthetics and "lines", I had to consciously bite my tongue when I was in Houston a few weeks ago - someone was congratulating me on the Icon (and being very genuine about it), but then started talking about how the chair that the company he worked for had was the one with the "cleanest lines" in the industry, and really stood out from the rest of the offerings in the market.

He's a super nice guy, and very genuine, but listen, I'm sorry, whether it's Invacare, Top End, Quickie, Sopur, RGK, Ki, Lasher, or Oracing - they all look identical - if you took the logos off of them, it would be hard for anyone but an industry old-timer to tell them apart - and none of them have "cleaner lines", because none of them have "lines" that are any different.

Anyway. This brings me to answer my friend Stephen212:

We're going to put the logo on the footrest. Yes, that's where your feet go, and yes, it will be covered up.

Christian and I really believe that this is your wheelchair, not ours, and that we have to be firmly behind that philosophy. If we find that there's genuine confusion in the market, and that people are clamoring for a logo on it in a more obvious spot somewhere, we'll put one on, but for exactly the reasons that I'm addressing above, I'm not afraid that beside a TiLite or a Quickie or any of the others, that there will be any question that it's a different chair that does very different things. If it's sitting in a showroom or in a rehab facility, we want people who don't know the industry to be able to figure out what brand it is, but when you're in it, it's yours, not ours.

We want the Icon to be a wheelchair, not a billboard or advertising leave-behind.

[totoL1]

Yes, the camber can be adjusted - 0, 2, 4, or 6 degrees are the choices.

To adjust the camber, the outside bolt is loosened, which allows the swing arm to pivot.
[ATTACH]41960[/ATTACH]

I`m not a fan of the Icon, but now in the pics looks a bit better, but i still waiting for a good really pic.
Of course is a unique and different chair with a lot of adjustaments that could be the best choice for much people who like it and the time will tell us how good is it and if all that adjustamets give some problems after the chair have been rolling a few chairs, i hope no and i wish you good luck with it.

But i`ve got a question, looking at how you can adjust the camber look like your camber tubes are fixed to the frame only with two little bolts(looks M6 bolts) each side? put good bolts there man, spend a few $$ in titanium GR5 bolts.