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    Proof that OFL works...

    This pic provides a concrete example of how getting the OFL in a CAD drawing allows for an "apples to apples" comparison between an existing chair and the specs for a proposed chair. The top half shows the OFL for the TR3 while the Boing on which it was based is shown in the lower half. Both have an OFL of just over 26".

    Imagine how different the TR3 would have looked had it been built to the specs used for "CAD 1" (Which we later discovered had an OFL of just <24")?

    Please reply in the Discussion Thread
    Last edited by SCI_OTR; 25 Dec 2012, 12:21 AM.


      Originally posted by tooley View Post
      Recently tried spec'ing a ZR2 for a young T11 new-SCI fellow and found that TiLite's ergo seating is only available with tension-adjustable straps (that sag badly), not available with the lock-down folding backrest hardware (boo), and also not available with seat taper (narrower seat at front than back). I can't follow their logic.
      Tooley, I can't seem to find this on the TR3 order form - it doesn't specify they're mutually exclusive, just that the TA by straps seat is standard with either/both (?) and the G10 is unavailable with the ergo. Do I just not see it, or did Tilite tell you?


        Originally posted by amyk View Post
        Tooley, I can't seem to find this on the TR3 order form - it doesn't specify they're mutually exclusive, just that the TA by straps seat is standard with either/both (?) and the G10 is unavailable with the ergo. Do I just not see it, or did Tilite tell you?
        That was for the ZR.

        ** EDIT **

        Good catch Amy. I was wrong about that one - ergo-seating is available with a tapered seat width on both the ZR and TR. (I think from here on in we can stop denoting the Series number due to the fact that Ti is now only offering one version of each)
        Last edited by tooley; 28 Dec 2012, 8:08 PM. Reason: mistaken, corrected


          CAD is evil. When you migrate "your" data from version to version+1 of proprietary CAD product half the time something will be missing or mess up and you don't what it is. It is even worse if you try to use "your" data in another product. This is very similar to the e-discovery problem with MS Office documents. I have used the Bochs pure software Pentium emulators so that I could build an MS Wfw 3.11 i486 machine with our then SOE Apple LaserWriter driver to recover MS Word 6 and MS Excel 5 as hard copies had been lost! RTF is no better, but it allowed our migration from MS Word 6. Even this RTF which initially suggests TeX is self-inconsistent. In drawing office the IT department leaves them to fend for themselves. We help the Credit Department more as they collect our money.

          Catia V.5 (Unix) to V.6 (Microsoft) and data loss. AirBus and Rolls Royce Trent?

          Document it in plain text and with photos as will need to reconstruct this many times during product life cycle.

          If you use CAD plot 2D views to PostScript and keep these for later reference when re-constructing 3D models. Retrieving from drawing cabinets in the roach farm archive takes too long and you will loose you the case.

          Any good solid modelling pkgs that use an open, rational, self consistent format like IGES? Or do they all just shit in files?

          I prefer S-Expressions to XML for the same reason that I prefer C, FORTRAN or anything else apart from BASIC to COBOL.


            Wheelchair dump

            This needs to be 10 to 15 degree for easy transfer or 20 degree for health.


              Fortress Edge 75 drawings?

              I have a busted Fortress Edge 75 rigid frame manual chair. Having drawings would enable me get parts made at a CNC shop. Castor and break broken thanks to QANTAS. Single wall rim busted due to me. (I now go out of my way and the long way around to avoid crappy 3rd world >50mm kerbs. Priya Cooper had/has one of these chairs. I replaced the plastic spacers with metal Bissell pins. I obviously weigh much more!)

              Fortress Lite-Style, Inc.
              PO Box 489
              Clovis, California 93613-0489
              United States
              Telephone: 800-866-4335 or 209-323-0292.
              Fax: 209-323-0299 F.

              The company is gone, but they were assigned a number of patents including reversible breaks (for those who have breaks on their chairs). However, no useful drawings backed up by the interwebs. Are they now owned by Trolls?

              Would be good if drawings existed for life-cycle in a format that could be read during that life cycle. Volatile DWG and PeDoFile will not do, but 2D only PostScript has remained stable.


                A Xtreme box 1 with adjustable push handles, folding backrest, removable CF fendered sideguards and flip up footplate, with 24" rear wheels and 5" front casters.


                  A XTR 2 to Holland.


                    Tilite Aero Z Series 2

                    AZFS1 TiLite AERO Z SERIES 2 K0005 $2095
                    AZFF19 BLACK LAVA PAINT
                    AZSW4 16" SEAT WIDTH
                    AZFSW1 NO SEAT TAPER - STANDARD
                    AZSD1 17" SEAT DEPTH
                    AZFSH1 17.5" FRONT SEAT HEIGHT
                    AZRSH1 15" REAR SEAT HEIGHT
                    AZFA1 80 DEGREE FRONT ANGLE
                    15.5" SEAT TO FOOTREST
                    AZFTR3 ANGLE ADJ FOOTREST K0040 STD
                    3.5" TAPER FOOTREST
                    AZFE1 10" FOOTREST WIDTH
                    AZFE2 NO V-FRONT TAPER
                    AZSB11 LOCKING BACKREST NCO
                    ALUM 13.5"-16.5" FOLDING ADJ-HT BACK
                    13.5" SEAT BACK HEIGHT
                    AZSBA1 89 DEGREE SEAT BACK ANGLE
                    AZCOG1 .5" CENTER OF GRAVITY
                    AZRWS1 1" REAR WHEEL SPACING
                    AZCBR1 ALUMINUM 2 DEGREE CAMBER
                    5" FRONT WHEELS
                    AZFW18 1.5 " PLASTIC W/POLY CASTERS $80
                    AZFK1 TiLite STANDARD FORK STD
                    24" WHEEL SIZE
                    AZRW14 TiLite SHADOW WHEELS STD
                    AZRTR1 TREADED TIRES STD
                    AZRIM1 SILVER ANO HANDRIMS STD
                    AZRIM7 LONG HANDRIM TABS STD
                    AZWLK2 COMPOSITE SCISSOR LOCK $125
                    AZUPC1 BLACK UPHOLSTERY STD
                    ALUMINUM SIDE GUARDS
                    AZSDG3 QUAD REMOVABLE STANDARD $185
                    AZTIP1 BLACK ALUMINUM ANTI-TIPS E0971 $135

                    c6/7 incomplete 6/30/07

                    whats that smell? its me, cause im the shit.

                    если я сейчас умру то нахуй я родился


                      Originally posted by totoL1 View Post
                      A Xtreme box 1 with adjustable push handles, folding backrest, removable CF fendered sideguards and flip up footplate, with 24" rear wheels and 5" front casters.
                      Here is it, this chair with purple Dinos wheels would be awesone, it`s for woman.


                        a pair more.


                          16 x 15 85 Degree TiLite ZR2

                          COG = 3 is too forward. Horizontally rotating and moving the rear axle to the forward-most position (pic 1) is still not enough for the desired tendency of the front end to tip up over irregular surfaces. But it does position more than half of the front caster under the rear wheel (pic 2) which is a stability concern.

                          A spec of COG = 5 (~3 original position + (29.9 - 28.5) for advancing + 0.5 for rotation) would have prevented this problem.

                          note: after moving the rear axle forward, the length shown in the drawing is changed from 29.9" to 28.5".
                          Last edited by Axle; 1 Feb 2013, 6:34 AM.


                            15x17+1.5 80 Degree TiLite TR3

                            This is actually the first TR3 that myself and a colleague spec'd. It is for a very experienced user with a fairly low level injury who happens to be one of the better wheelchair athletes around. He was looking to replace a TopEnd Terminator Titanium which had a 75 degree frame angle. We initially intended to do exactly that. This was the initial CAD provided for our specs...

                            Based on our prior experience translating specs, it seemed reasonable to assume that adding 1 1/2 inches to a standard 17" deep 75 degree TiLite frame would give us an Occupied Frame Length (OFL) similar to a 17" deep 75 degree TopEnd frame. Upon seeing the OFL spec we requested for the CAD, however, this was clearly not the case. Surprisingly, the OFL was nearly 2" longer than than the OFL of his Terminator!

                            Because requesting the OFL allowed us to realize our proposed specs would have resulted in a substantially different frame than we expected, we had a chance to regroup and discuss things further. We decided the best way to get an OFL similar to the Terminator was to change the frame angle to 85 degrees. The effect on the TR3's OFL is shown in the second CAD...

                            After receiving the second CAD, a third discussion took place. It was mutually agreed to pull the trigger and order the chair based on the revised specs:
                            Tilite TR Series 3
                            15" Seat Width
                            17" Seat Depth
                            18.5 Custom Frame Depth
                            80 Degree Front Angle
                            19" Front Seat Height
                            17.5" Rear Seat Height
                            17" Seat To Footrest Height
                            4" Front Frame Taper
                            9" Footrest Width
                            DU100057 Custom Adjustable Height Fixed Backrest
                            10.5-14.5" Set @ 13"
                            6.5" Custom Ht Rigidizer Bar
                            Non-folding Back
                            88 Degree Fixed Back
                            3.5" Center Of Gravity
                            .75" Rear Wheel Spacing
                            0 Degree Camber
                            4" Perf Billet Aluminum w/ Poly Tire
                            Slipstream Fork w/ Titanium Stems
                            25" Golz Twin-star Exchange Wheels w/ Schwalbe Speedrun Tires
                            Short Tab Titanium Handrims
                            Tension Adjustable By Straps Back Upholstery
                            G10 Solid Seat
                            Rigid Removable Standard Carbon Fiber Side Guards

                            Here is how the actual chairs compare...

                            On a technical note, the CAD for this chair shows a custom frame dimension that provides exactly 1.5" of frame tubing between the front of the seat pan and the start of the frame bend. This was not the case for the last TR3 that I posted in the repository--a 15x17+2 80 Degree TiLite TR3. That chair had the additional 1/2 inch that TiLite added to the TR3's standard frame...

                            Discussion thread.
                            Last edited by SCI_OTR; 3 Feb 2013, 8:19 PM.


                              Most definitely interested in this chair and discussion thread.


                                15x17+1.5 80 Degree TiLite TR3 Discussion Thread