Carbon fiber solid seat pan by strips.

[elarson]

Hi JeffH,

We are interested in an ADI Carbon Fiber Seatbase with ADI Carbon Fiber Folding Sideguards and an ADI Carbon Fiber Back (if we can afford them all).

Any chance you can post some pictures of how you did it with the velcro? I've seen Toto's pic's with an Oracing, but I would be curious to see how you did it on a ZRA2.

We are looking to have a folding adjustable height seat back and and I'm hoping that by using the ADI sideguards it would get us around the Potential Issue with TiLite CF Folding Side Guards . If you happen to also have a folding seat back I'd be curious to know if there are any issues with folding it.

Do you find that the "Side Guard Stop" bracket on the back posts is enough to keep them from wobbling in?

I like the look of this combination (see photo below), in that the sideguards are not so long as TiLites, and the idea that both the seatbase and sideguards can be taken out and adjusted easily with only velcro.

Note: Although the ADI Seatbase is expensive, I think the ADI Folding Sideguards are cheaper than TiLite's, so without the seatbase mounting bracket it could be just about even with TiLite, and TiLite does not offer a CF base that I know of.

I recently transferred an ADI carbon fiber seat base and folding side guards from my old chair to my new ZRA2.

Rather than use the ADI brackets I tried velcro instead.

It works great.
The ADI brackets weigh 12 ounces (3/4 pound or 340 grams), the velcro doesn't.

Additional features: To adjust the brakes or the CG just pull off the seat pan for instant access, no more flipping the chair over.
No more re-drilling holes in the side guards with changes to the back angle or dump, simply re-position the seat base.

On my new chair I used 1" x 16" strips of velcro.
On my old chair I put on a plywood base and saved velcro by using four 1" x 2" pieces. Even with just the small pieces the base stays in place securely.

Good tip Toto, thanks.

Jeff

[JeffH]

Hi JeffH,

...
Any chance you can post some pictures of how you did it with the velcro? I've seen Toto's pic's with an Oracing, but I would be curious to see how you did it on a ZRA2.

...

Do you find that the "Side Guard Stop" bracket on the back posts is enough to keep them from wobbling in?

I like the look of this combination (see photo below), in that the sideguards are not so long as TiLites, and the idea that both the seatbase and sideguards can be taken out and adjusted easily with only velcro.

Note: Although the ADI Seatbase is expensive, I think the ADI Folding Sideguards are cheaper than TiLite's, so without the seatbase mounting bracket it could be just about even with TiLite, and TiLite does not offer a CF base that I know of.

Here's a pic of the velcro install.
It's really simple. Just 14" (or so) 1" wide self-adhesive strips on the top of the frame tubes and the bottom of the seat base.

And a few pics of the side guards as well.

As for the ADI side guards, they'll custom cut them based on a cardboard template that you provide.
I have since re-cut them after adjusting the dump/seatback angle.

The side guard stops on the canes work fine, although when I installed them to the Tilite I chose to rotate them to provide a more positive stop.

If you're, handy with a saber saw (aka jigsaw) you could cut your own the seat base and side guards... that's what 'd do if i had to do it again.

[elarson]

Many thanks for the photo's JeffH. That does look very easy with the velcro, and it's good to know velcro is strong enough to hold. Also good about the side guard stops that you can play with their positioning.

If you have time, I hope you don't mind a few more questions:

What you wrote about cutting the seat base and side guaurds, do you mean the ADI's or something like DragonPlate? I don't think I'm good enough to manage it all with DragonPlate, but probably could manage cutting the ADI's to fit. Does that mean that the edge material is removable and replaceable after they are cut on the ADI's?

Wow, your ADI backrest looks to be the low 10" mounted really high up. My husband needs some upper body trunk support (he slouches) so I was thinking we would do the medium 13", but would prefer the 10" if possible. Does yours provide enough support like this? How high are your seat posts? I'm not sure if it is relevant, but we are considering the quick release hardware.

Do you happen to know if ADI uses 100% carbon fiber as opposed to a laminate? The reason I ask is that they need to be able to get pretty wet on occasion and I don't want to worry about moisture in a birch core laminate.

I just found out about this link on Flick for more pictures of ADI products if anyone is interested: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52594054@N08

If you're, handy with a saber saw (aka jigsaw) you could cut your own the seat base and side guards... that's what 'd do if i had to do it again.

[JeffH]

..

What you wrote about cutting the seat base and side guaurds, do you mean the ADI's or something like DragonPlate? ... Does that mean that the edge material is removable and replaceable after they are cut on the ADI's?

Yes, I cut my ADI supplied seatbase and sideguards.
And yes, I peeled off the edging, cut the CF, and then reattached the edging.

I sealed the cut edges of the carbon fiber with cyanoacrylic (CA) glue to prevent splintering.
I used hot glue to reattach the edging.
An automotive weatherstrip adhesive or perhaps silicone would probably be better than the hot glue because the hot glue has such a short working time.

Do you happen to know if ADI uses 100% carbon fiber as opposed to a laminate? The reason I ask is that they need to be able to get pretty wet on occasion and I don't want to worry about moisture in a birch core laminate.

It's a nomex honeycomb laminate.
Like this. http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=5316
1/8" thick.
Moisture is not a problem.

Wow, your ADI backrest looks to be the low 10" mounted really high up. My husband needs some upper body trunk support (he slouches) so I was thinking we would do the medium 13", but would prefer the 10" if possible. Does yours provide enough support like this? How high are your seat posts? I'm not sure if it is relevant, but we are considering the quick release hardware.

About the backrest:
I got the 10" high Roho JetStream Pro (made by ADI) about six years ago.

Three years ago i found that my t9 and t10 had been self destructing and it got to that point where I needed fusion surgery with rods from l1 to t5.
Three weeks post surgery t5 blew out (a bone infection is suspected) and it was back for more surgery with the rods being extended up to c-6.
After the failure, paranoia about getting the vertebrae to fuse meant no lifting (and no self transfers).
So for 10 months I spent time in a nursing home and then a power chair.

I get a lot of hip extensor spasms, which are often induced by the vibrations that occur when wheeling around.
The spasms are reduced when I lean forward, reducing the hip angle.

So when I transitioned back to my manual chair I was worried about the spasms levering me back over the top of the back support putting stress on my still healing spine in just the wrong place.
Consequently I swapped the 10" CF back for a 16" aluminum version.
The taller back mitigated the concern about stress on the fusion but never felt comfortable.
Now that the hip spasms had a solid spine to act upon, when they occurred I get slammed back into the backrest making it really hard to push. If it happened on a ramp I'd have to wait for the spasm to subside.
To deal with that I increased the dump and kept adjusting the seat back forward until it was past vertical.
Even after those adjustments I kept unconsciously trying to push my butt back into the chair for stability when approaching a ramp.

So I was able to push better but was uncomfortable when sitting still. No way to relax cause I had to constantly prop myself up to avoid just falling forward at the waist.

Anyway, about eight months later I got my ZRA2.
During the transition I left the tall back on my old chair and installed the short back on the tilite.
I mounted it as high as it would go on the seat posts due to the aforementioned concerns regarding the back fusion.

Immediately after the first transfer to the ZRA I knew I was on to something.

The back felt way better.

The gap between the seat cushion and the back support allowed me to push my butt back and gave me way more lumbar support because the lumbar was contacting the back support rather than being held away by butt 'pouch'.

It made sense right away, after all, look at any straight backed chair for ABs, most have a similar gap.

The next step was to raise the back higher, increasing the gap.
That made it even better.

I have standard height seat posts.

To raise the back higher I used spacers so that the back support could be mounted up on the canes.

This solved my pushing / spasm issues and allowed me to recline the seat back to a comfortable position.
When I approach a ramp I push my butt back into the gap, increasing the effective dump and stability.
When it's time to relax I just lean back.

As a bonus, the 10" jetstream is much lighter and has dirt simple, clean, solid mounting hardware.

I don't see the need for the quick release hardware, the back folds down just fine the way it is.

Good luck,
Jeff

[elarson]

Thanks again for all of the information JeffH.

I think I'll try to get ADI to fit the side guards when we order. I don't think we will be doing a drastic dump -- max. 1-2".

Yes, I cut my ADI supplied seatbase and sideguards...

This might sound crazy, but it sounds like we could use the wheelchair in the shower if we ever really needed to while travelling (I know I'll hear a lot of flack for this;-)

Moisture is not a problem.

Quite an ordeal that you went through. It really does make sense what you are saying, especially for somone who does not need lower back support. I'm going to think on this a while..

About the backrest:...It made sense right away, after all, look at any straight backed chair for ABs, most have a similar gap.

I've been looking at the CAD drawings for the Quick Release and the 2 Point Pro Mounting Hardware, and with the exception of the lock/release lever it really looks to be only a few ounces more in weight (I've written ADI to ask). The reason I want quick release is so we can fold it down smaller in the car and take it off to protect it when flying. After a 10 hour flight the last thing I want to do is get the toolkit out;-)

I don't see the need for the quick release hardware, the back folds down just fine the way it is.

[totoL1]

Mine now.

[lacesoutvic]

bumping this thread.

i'm about 140 lbs, will be doing the occasional curb, but nothing extreme. i was thinking of getting a 3mm or 1/8" sheet (a little more than 3mm) 16x16", NOT doing strips - just the full sheet.

do you think that will support me fine and last me a few years without cracking? i'll be securing it with velcro. also, does it matter if i go with the birch core or pure carbon fiber? i would want the thinnest, strongest option that is reasonable for my weight and size.

[totoL1]

bumping this thread.

i'm about 140 lbs, will be doing the occasional curb, but nothing extreme. i was thinking of getting a 3mm or 1/8" sheet (a little more than 3mm) 16x16", NOT doing strips - just the full sheet.

do you think that will support me fine and last me a few years without cracking? i'll be securing it with velcro. also, does it matter if i go with the birch core or pure carbon fiber? i would want the thinnest, strongest option that is reasonable for my weight and size.

it will be ok at first, but with time will start getting bend, I would go for a 5/32" and you will not have any problem, velcro is ok.
Birch core is cheaper and a bit lighter.

[RibTickler]

Just been looking at this thread as I need a solid base for my Quickie Helium. The sling fabric is so bowed it doesn't support the cushion without bending it. CF is far to expensive. Was looking at plywood or polycarbonate in a single sheet. I will remove the sling and bars it attaches to, and bolt the solid sheet to the chair. I don't want a bend, or very little, in the sheet. What thickness would you recommend? I'm a C5 tetra, but have e-motion wheels.

[totoL1]

Just been looking at this thread as I need a solid base for my Quickie Helium. The sling fabric is so bowed it doesn't support the cushion without bending it. CF is far to expensive. Was looking at plywood or polycarbonate in a single sheet. I will remove the sling and bars it attaches to, and bolt the solid sheet to the chair. I don't want a bend, or very little, in the sheet. What thickness would you recommend? I'm a C5 tetra, but have e-motion wheels.

I don`t know why Care Cure dosen`t send me emails in threads where i have writed.
Playwood works ok and is very cheap and light enough, polycarbonate will be more expensive and heavy for the thickness you will need.
So go for playwood, the thickness will depends about your weight and the seat width,and of course the quality of the playwood, because not all are the same, a good playwood for a guy with 80 kilos in a 16" seat width will be ok with .5" thickness

[elarson]

Re-attaching ADI Seat base trim

I've revived this thread because it has a wealth of information about carbon fiber seat bases.

It is about 1 year after receiving the ADI seat base, and overall we are very happy with it and it is holding up well. Unfortunately, it is just out of warranty and I noticed that the trim has come loose on one side of the seat base and want to make a repair.

I?m not really sure if this is just a matter of trying to separate the trim and reattach it, or if I should also be using some type of adhesive, and if so, what type. I also wonder if I should heat the trim to make it more pliable.


Based on a previous post #124 , JeffH recommended automotive weatherstrip adhesive or perhaps silicone.

I?m going to write to ADI and see what they suggest, and will update this with what I learn. If you click on this photo you can see a larger version where you can really see the honeycomb panel. Luckily, it does not look like any of the carbon fiber laminate has been damaged.

[elarson]

I realized that I never updated this post with photo's of what we did with using Velcro to mount an ADI seat base. We also have ADI hardware, but we never drilled holes to screw it into the base. After one year, we are very happy with the setup and can easily take out seat base with folding side guards for maintenance or traveling.

[JeffAdams]

You can just superglue the edging - have a cloth ready to wipe away excess if necessary - just a drop will do, we use Gorilla brand.

I would put a a drop at every 1" increment in the edging that came off, and just push it back onto the panel.

[elarson]

Thanks Jeff. I heard back about it from ADI also, but forgot to post it. Their recommendation was the same:

The trim can be reapplied, you will need to clean the existing glue off the trim and carbon. Then you can just glue it back on using super glue. We use a LockTite brand superglue, but Gorilla brand superglue works as well. Heating the trim does make it more pliable and easier to work with, but is not necessary.

You can just superglue the edging - have a cloth ready to wipe away excess if necessary - just a drop will do, we use Gorilla brand.

I would put a a drop at every 1" increment in the edging that came off, and just push it back onto the panel.

[JeffH]

I realized that I never updated this post with photo's of what we did with using Velcro to mount an ADI seat base. We also have ADI hardware, but we never drilled holes to screw it into the base. After one year, we are very happy with the setup and can easily take out seat base with folding side guards for maintenance or traveling.

I did the same several years ago.

Also tossed the ADI seat hardware - it's not needed for strength or any other reason - just velcro works fine.
ADI probably supplies the brackets solely to avoid holes at the edge of the baseboard, which of course aren't needed with the velcro.

Jeff