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Marvel v. Cervelo

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    #16
    Originally posted by stephen212 View Post
    Like I said, where's the logic to this decision?
    I don't think anyone really knows.

    Originally posted by lynnifer View Post
    I'm not sure that CareCure is the appropriate venue for this ... we don't want to be brought into this legal rambling.
    "We" being whom?

    I appreciate Jeff's candor & I know I'm not the only stakeholder here. His post was nothing more than a detailed "FYI."

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      #17
      now, lets see if, when or how long it will take Cervelo to respond. wondering if they are CareCure savy.

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        #18
        Perhaps not a perfect analogy, but Cervelo pulled a Leno on Jeff and Christian. They gave them the show and then stole it back.
        stephen@bike-on.com

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          #19
          Thanks for the info, sorry to hear that. Blows my mind, but that is how the corporate world works, no brains attached. I honestly don't see how they intend to carry on with this chair, it was the the idea of a couple of guys in a chair, it was innovative and different because of that, those two pushed the chair and were there to work with each customer to be sure that their chairs worked for that customer, so the best business move is to get rid of those guys? Such a confusing idea to even try to comprehend and I'm sure both of you still are trying to get your heads around the idea of what just happened.

          It does make up my decision and ZR series 2 here I come!
          Most everything I say is

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            #20
            I think maybe everyone should consider that we're only being presented with one side, or part of the story here, and should perhaps reserve judgment of any parties involved actions until we know the full story.

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              #21
              Well, that sucks. At this rate, my chair is gonna be the most diy chair ever. Sucks too because there was a lot of interest at the Defi Sportif this weekend.
              www.worldonwheels.ca

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                #22
                Well, I for one have ZERO reason to doubt the word of EITHER of these guys. I am REALLY glad they told us. And w/o the developers/designers involved, I wouldn't give TWO SHITS for a chair from cervelo. Biking is/was/will be one of my top interest sports, and it will be a cold day in hell before I purchase or recommend ANY of their products to any one... That will cost them, robbing two paras...that is what it means in my eyes.

                Product recommendations from me have to be earned with a quality product and THAT includes good engineering with those same folks standing behind it. WelP, 50% of THAT is missing now. I HATE idea theives, lower than whaleshit.

                As far as Care Cure being 'part of it', we discuss EVERYTHING here, this is no different. Matter of fact, it's right in line with all the equipment threads. I want to know about ALL snakes in the grass, ESPECIALLY the new, unsuspected ones.


                Those who would take our money, TAKE NOTE, it helps if you are HUMAN, if you want MY money.
                Dogs.
                Last edited by CapnGimp; 2 May 2010, 2:54 PM.

                https://www.facebook.com/john.baxter.1213986

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                  #23
                  Jeff,

                  I just don't see how Cervelo will be able to develop the M1 with anywhere near the passion, creativity, and and design sense that you and Christian put into it.

                  I am saddened by this news and convey my sympathy over what has apparently transpired. You may design a better chair in the future, but I also know that the M1 was a reflection of your individual beliefs about what a wheelchair should be. You have to feel as though they took a little bit of you along with the chair.

                  I am particularly sad, because the M1 seemed to be progressing beyond the early adopter stage towards a more mainstream acceptance. Sportaid began carrying it and I was starting to consider it as a possible option for the veterans I work with. That alone says something if you know what additional paperwork needs to be done by the clinician if the manufacturer is not on FSS contract with the VA.

                  The "open source" approach of seeking input from CareCure members and other end users to help solve unforeseen problems some encountered due to the M1's unique design was also refreshing. With many manufacturers, the response I often get when I bring up a design shortcoming (that I know others are also experiencing) follows a typical script. It sounds something like this:
                  "Feature x? What problem with feature x? I'll pass that along to ____________"
                  I don't see this as some conspiracy whereby a big corporation wants to squash an up & coming competitor with an innovative product that poses a threat. Thinking that they will be able to successfully market and sell the M1 on their own seems to be nothing more than an extremely bad business decision on the part of Cervelo.

                  Keep the faith my friend and best wishes for the future.

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                    #24
                    Fckrs!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by SCI_OTR View Post
                      I don't see this as some conspiracy whereby a big corporation wants to squash an up & coming competitor with an innovative product that poses a threat. Thinking that they will be able to successfully market and sell the M1 on their own seems to be nothing more than an extremely bad business decision on the part of Cervelo.
                      I'm not sure I'm following you exactly on this last point. Who is the "big corporation wants to squash an up & coming competitor with an innovative product that poses a threat?" Cervelo had a 50% stake in Marvel -- Marvel wasn't their competitor, they were its children. This act of infanticide on Cervelo's part will have the opposite effect: they will have created a competitor (i.e., Jeff and Christian's next company) rather than extinguished one.
                      Last edited by stephen212; 2 May 2010, 12:38 PM.
                      stephen@bike-on.com

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Shaun View Post
                        Fckrs!
                        Even worse, they're stupid.
                        stephen@bike-on.com

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                          #27
                          what happened with/at Marvel is sad and disappointing. BUT, lets not forget about the present M1 owners. today, right now at this moment i really dont give a rats azz you owns the company, i have to now look at the future. we are going to need tech support, warranty assistance and spare parts. that is now my only and fore most concern right now.
                          jeff and christian are 2 unique inviduals and i am sure they are going to roll back into the wheelchair spot light before we all know it. this industry needs those 2 to continuously shake things up and keep things fresh.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by BobMach View Post
                            what happened with/at Marvel is sad and disappointing. BUT, lets not forget about the present M1 owners. today, right now at this moment i really dont give a rats azz you owns the company, i have to now look at the future. we are going to need tech support, warranty assistance and spare parts. that is now my only and fore most concern right now.
                            jeff and christian are 2 unique inviduals and i am sure they are going to roll back into the wheelchair spot light before we all know it. this industry needs those 2 to continuously shake things up and keep things fresh.
                            if your lucky you'll get support for 6 mths then on your own. i'd bet on it.
                            Bike-on.com rep
                            John@bike-on.com
                            c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                            sponsored handcycle racer

                            Comment


                              #29
                              *sigh*

                              Although this story is a bit disheartening, it comes to me as no surprise. Personally, I would never jump on board with ANY company that has a "legal team." It's just asking for trouble. I'm reminded of Doug Garven and all the efforts he put into developing new stuff. When you start dealing with corporations (big or small), it's no longer about bringing new things to the world that will improve the lives of earth's inhabitants. It's about the bottom line and nothing more.

                              Anyway, I'm hoping that Jeff and Christian will continue to do what they love. I'd suggest that they do it independently. Sure, it's nice to have the financial backing and resources of a bigger corporation. But in the end, these two guys worked hard for years and were left with nothing. As someone that aspires to design, develop, and build adaptive equipment, I am planning to go it alone. I know that any company I ever start will never make me rich and never be anything more than "small potatoes," but I will also know that it is mine and can't be taken away by some corporation.

                              Sad story. Lots of people getting screwed over.
                              Live fast. Die.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Warrior82 View Post
                                Anyway, I'm hoping that Jeff and Christian will continue to do what they love. I'd suggest that they do it independently. Sure, it's nice to have the financial backing and resources of a bigger corporation. But in the end, these two guys worked hard for years and were left with nothing. As someone that aspires to design, develop, and build adaptive equipment, I am planning to go it alone. I know that any company I ever start will never make me rich and never be anything more than "small potatoes," but I will also know that it is mine and can't be taken away by some corporation.

                                Sad story. Lots of people getting screwed over.

                                I think this was part of the problem from the start, I remember following the building of 'the sorano chair' and Christian over at cripcollege when I was first injured 5 years ago. Eventually though, you will need some serious money backing you to design and engineer a wheelchair, and be able to market it. Hope you guys are able to get back into it, and looking forward to seeing any designs you come up with.

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