Gold plated zr w/ built in testicle tickler

[fuentejps]

Ok, so we were discussing chair prices and getting ass raped by dme's so heres my new zr cost.
Fyi- atg was upfront w/ me, and have been good to work with. Their margins are just steep. Unlike many dme's, they arent shady w/ the billing, it is what it is.

[stephen212]

Not trying to bust your balls, John, but you wrote somewhere around here a few days ago that your ZR is almost 2 years old. However, according to this thread that you started it's actually closer to 14 months old. I know, time flies. Granted you have new insurance and the opportunity for a new chair, but was buying a new chair this soon really a necessity? I'd like to think that your current chair was built sturdily enough to live a longer life. We can all rail against insurance companies and DMEs but consumers (that means all of us collectively, not singling out John) are co-enablers of the health care crisis.

[fuentejps]

Nah shes an 07, she sat in the loft for quit awhile b4 i messed w/ it, was still recovering from staph and finishing building my house when i got it,... And the down tubes needed modified, nop blax and wrong cushion..... To be exact i just pulled the paperwork out of my file was delivered may 2007.

Doesnt matter to me if it was 1 year old, i still would have got a new one. New ins= new chair, always.

Besides, i shouldnt matter if someone gets a chair every 6 mths, doesnt justify what dme's do. ins co's suck but ill be the first to say my premiums havent changed but maybe 50 bucks in 15 years. as for a health care crisis i dont get it, if ppl would work they would have decent healthcare. now i agree the self employed get screwed, but i have zero sympathy for those on medicaid that are capable of working but chosse not to.

based on that quote when its broke down, atg is pocketing around 4500, for doing NOTHING , i do everything myself.

fyi- my ins pays 2250 on that base frame, atg gets it for around 1900, see my point. thoise misc codes r where they make money, why?? because they are payed on a % of whats billed.

[Oddity]

re: insurance I'm pretty sure it all depends on the benefit plan, some are percentage, some are flat rate ("UC"), some are 100% if in network, some with medical management, others without, etc, etc. Any combination you want is available, for a price.

re: chair prices, my Mg, spec'd out on Sportaid lists for $8,100. I was quoted~$7,500 at a trade show and then a much better than expected discount off of that (for making the trip to the show to be fitted, i was told). After ins. my out of pocket cost wasn't much more than it was for the Quickie GT I got coming out of the hospital or what fuente's paying.

Insurance companies are getting ripped off, but ultimately you and I are the ones being ripped off because you can be CERTAIN every profitable insurance company in business is passing their risk and exposure to those high prices right on down to you and I through premiums, copays and deductibles. The house ALWAYS wins.

[Oddity]

The days of new ins = new chair, always are soon to be at an end, IMO. This is catching on so fast every insurance company in the nation will be using something like this soon, it'll be Federal mandate, (it's part of HIPAA not implemented yet), soon. I know the Sentara network and BC/BS have combined their utilization data with MiB and that United is on the way. Most, if not all, State medicaid providers are required to send utilization data for integration in national fraud prevention databases. If insurance wasn't evil enough, they're all going to be talking together to make themselves even more evil, which means 'profitable' in insurance speak.

[fuentejps]

i dont think that will effect anything. there have been a few times when my co, had bc/bs then med mutual then back to bc/bs few years later. never has had an impact on my chairs.

[Brianm]

As we say, no offense meant, not that fuentejps gets easily offended, but I gotta say it how I feel, it seems a bit crappy to me to buy a chair unneeded just because you can and then charge the insurance company inflated prices. As Stephen mentions above, we the people end up paying one way or the other. I am sure some of this stems from my frustration of being in a 10 year old chair and being told no by my insurance. "Maybe" if there was less "excess", or whatever one wants to call it, my insurance wouldn't be denying me.

[fuentejps]

As we say, no offense meant, not that fuentejps gets easily offended, but I gotta say it how I feel, it seems a bit crappy to me to buy a chair unneeded just because you can and then charge the insurance company inflated prices. As Stephen mentions above, we the people end up paying one way or the other. I am sure some of this stems from my frustration of being in a 10 year old chair and being told no by my insurance. "Maybe" if there was less "excess", or whatever one wants to call it, my insurance wouldn't be denying me.

i feel for u, but i dont agree. after 2 years my chairs are cosmetically shitty looking, i cant go to work in something i feel looks like shit. just wont do it, i would buy out of pocket if needed, and will when the time comes.......i dont wear my shoes out either but i still buy alot of expensive johnston & murphy shoes. all things are relative.

what kind of policy do u have, do u work, group plan. i have never heard of the obstacles your encountering.

[Brianm]

what kind of policy do u have, do u work, group plan. i have never heard of the obstacles your encountering.

Nor have I, it is rediculous. Even the company I was working with to order the chair was quite surprised at their policy.

I do work and have a group marketing plan, whatever that means, it says it on my card. Coifinity.

i feel for u, but i dont agree. after 2 years my chairs are cosmetically shitty looking, i cant go to work in something i feel looks like shit. just wont do it, i would buy out of pocket if needed, and will when the time comes.......i dont wear my shoes out either but i still buy alot of expensive johnston & murphy shoes.

I certainly can understand you not wanting to be in a chair that looks bad. That said, show me where it looks so bad. Also, if it does, I have mixed feelings on this in that if you can't keep your chair in good shape after two years of use I am not sure that is the insurance companies fault.

Your shoe analogy is irrelevant as that is a personal choice.

This still doesn't address the inflated prices.

[fuentejps]

Nor have I, it is rediculous. Even the company I was working with to order the chair was quite surprised at their policy.

I do work and have a group marketing plan, whatever that means, it says it on my card. Coifinity.



I certainly can understand you not wanting to be in a chair that looks bad. That said, show me where it looks so bad. Also, if it does, I have mixed feelings on this in that if you can't keep your chair in good shape after two years of use I am not sure that is the insurance companies fault.

Your shoe analogy is irrelevant as that is a personal choice.

This still doesn't address the inflated prices.

again, we can agree to disagree, this is the way it is and will continue to be. i pay the premium, so i get what i want. no need to argue, if i wear you i would be bitter too.. i guess my question to u would be why in 10 years havent u just saved and bought a new chair?? you work, 3-4k isnt a ton of monies.

my standards for may be higher than some chair wise, but again, its like anything else, if i want it i get it.

as for the inflated prices, the ins co's are aware and they let it continue.

[Brianm]

again, we can agree to disagree, this is the way it is and will continue to be. i pay the premium, so i get what i want. no need to argue, if i wear you i would be bitter too.. i guess my question to u would be why in 10 years havent u just saved and bought a new chair?? you work, 3-4k isnt a ton of monies.

my standards for may be higher than some chair wise, but again, its like anything else, if i want it i get it.

as for the inflated prices, the ins co's are aware and they let it continue.

You are right, we can agree to disagree, and do and have.

I am not sure what you mean, "I pay a premium".

If I thought I would be turned down when wanting a new chair I clearly would have planned differently, hindsight is 20/20 here. As for waiting 10 years, actually I should say 8 as I tried 2 years ago and was denied then too, but I didn't pursue before then because I never thought/needed too, the chair was fine.

I don't see your standards as higher than others, maybe just the opposite, where others take better care of what they own.

As for turning a blind eye to the inflated prices; I am sure if the insurance company had a choice they'd chose the lower quote of a more honest company. Aren't you the one who started the "Let's expose DME's" thread?

[CapnGimp]

I agree with John. A chair looks like shit less than a year after you get it. That is, IF you are out living life, transferring into vehicles multiple times per day. And also if you spend a lot of time outdoors, NOT tooling around inside or on concrete everywhere you go.
If I came to his office and he was sitting in MY chair, I'd be highly apt to go somewhere else for my business. If he was a mechanic, it would be different. Business is business, the bum in nasty clothes won't get much work. So it goes with the chair.

He pays his insurance to USE when needed. They buy his chairs. That is normal. The price they are charging, that is THEIR fault. Not John's.
I rode around for 12 years in my first chair. I didn't cry because others had new chairs. I am happy for them. He pays HIS way in life. I don't get why some of you feel it is UNFAIR for him to get wheelchairs.
It doesn't come out of your pocket, it comes out of JOHN'S pocket, see, he's the guy working and paying the premiums. His insurance company is making a fortune off each chair, above what Ti or whoever is charging for them. THAT is the sad part.
Insurance companies are a BUSINESS. They make money off those who pay the premiums.

[fuentejps]

this is industry wide brian, very common. i addressed this in my dme thread. the ppl and service w/ atg is good, their margins are high, but as i said they did tell me this up front.

best of luck w/ a new ride, im sure it will impact your mobility in a big way.

You are right, we can agree to disagree, and do and have.

I am not sure what you mean, "I pay a premium".

If I thought I would be turned down when wanting a new chair I clearly would have planned differently, hindsight is 20/20 here. As for waiting 10 years, actually I should say 8 as I tried 2 years ago and was denied then too, but I didn't pursue before then because I never thought/needed too, the chair was fine.

I don't see your standards as higher than others, maybe just the opposite, where others take better care of what they own.

As for turning a blind eye to the inflated prices; I am sure if the insurance company had a choice they'd chose the lower quote of a more honest company. Aren't you the one who started the "Let's expose DME's" thread?

[Brianm]

best of luck w/ a new ride, im sure it will impact your mobility in a big way.

Thanks fuentejps, I know it will and I am getting ever so close!

[Brianm]

I agree with John. A chair looks like shit less than a year after you get it. That is, IF you are out living life, transferring into vehicles multiple times per day. And also if you spend a lot of time outdoors, NOT tooling around inside or on concrete everywhere you go.
If I came to his office and he was sitting in MY chair, I'd be highly apt to go somewhere else for my business. If he was a mechanic, it would be different. Business is business, the bum in nasty clothes won't get much work. So it goes with the chair.

He pays his insurance to USE when needed. They buy his chairs. That is normal. The price they are charging, that is THEIR fault. Not John's.
I rode around for 12 years in my first chair. I didn't cry because others had new chairs. I am happy for them. He pays HIS way in life. I don't get why some of you feel it is UNFAIR for him to get wheelchairs.
It doesn't come out of your pocket, it comes out of JOHN'S pocket, see, he's the guy working and paying the premiums. His insurance company is making a fortune off each chair, above what Ti or whoever is charging for them. THAT is the sad part.
Insurance companies are a BUSINESS. They make money off those who pay the premiums.

Is this supposed to be some slam against me implying I don't get out in life? If so, you don't know me or my abilities.

Sure a chair will show some wear if transfered around as you say, but I asked John to show us this wear, not that it really matters.

Spare me your belittling remarks, nobody is on here crying about John getting a new chair, I simply raise a few points.

As for it not coming out of my pocket, see Stephen's post above!

I don't recall alluding to it being UNFAIR either, though admit that I may be speaking out of some frustration, though the questions remain.

Yes, insurance companies are a business, and when their costs go up, so do ours.