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    #46
    Originally posted by november View Post
    Scott that is really interesting, Braun vs El Dorado. Well the dealer works with El Dorado so both vans came from there. Where did you get that info about the height differences?
    my info isn't exactly official. i was told the El Dorado is an 11" floor drop vs a 12" drop in the Braun. the slope in the driver's area is based on my head. whereas when i roll fwd in the Braun, my head doesn't touch the ceiling, in the El Dorado my hair rubs against it. my hair isn't calibrated, so uh, u know, it's not exactly official.

    Originally posted by november View Post
    My shoulders and back are sore today. I'm out of shape. Hope that I get used to it. Do you guys think I should try to call around and find out about the Braun Conversion?
    u'd prbly get stronger & be able to do it. but, u never know. i chose the Braun b/c of the slope i noticed in the driving pos'n, since i drive from my chair -- i need the headroom. also, i thought the Braun was a higher quality product than El Dorado.
    "If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."
    ...Mark Twain

    I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
    ...Winston Churchill

    A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
    ...George Bernard Shaw

    Comment


      #47
      I would keep looking. You should not get something you aren't comfortable with. The time spent getting it right, will pale in comparison to the years you will(will not) be driving this. For that ramp to give even AB's trouble, that ain't right.

      Are you stuck on GM? They aren't even making them anymore.

      I looked at a pic of a "stock" Uplander, and compared to the ones on the Amerivan site.

      http://autos.yahoo.com/2008_chevrole...wheelbase_1lt/
      http://www.amerivans.com/amerivanGM.cfm#tab2

      Looking at the wheel wells, it appears that they raise the vehicle quite a bit. Even taking into account that they lower the floor, this seems like it would make a tougher ramp angle.

      The Braun(mines a Chrysler) conversions use the original spring suspension. they have the heavy duty rear springs, which give it a "jacked up" look in the back, but not in the front. Here's mine:

      http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ffTx/van/2.jpg

      I saw this little tool at Home Depot today for like eight dollars and change, and almost bought it. I might go back tomorrow and get it. This measures ramp(anything) angle:

      http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-...6215304&sr=8-1

      It would be interesting to know what the angles really are.

      I can get up my ramp(juuuust barely) even if I have kneel switched off. There is no reason you should have a vehicle that you are not fully comfortable with.

      Just my opinion of course...
      "a T10, who'd Rather be ridin'; than rollin'"

      Comment


        #48
        On Braun's website the GM's actually have the easiest incline at 7.3 degrees compared to Chrystler and Toyota. http://www.braunability.com/which-minivan.cfm
        I'll call Braun and ElDorado in the morning to verify ramp angles. Wouldn't in floor ramps be even less, but not according to Braun's chart. So a bigger angle degree is a steeper incline, am I correct? A 7 degree would be easier than a 9?

        I also got in contact with a para that owns a modified van dealership. He sells all makes and told me GM has the smallest ramp angle.

        Scott the ElDorado conversion is dropped 12" too.
        Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know that, so it goes on flying anyways--Mary Kay Ash

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          #49
          Mine is a dodge caravan with VMI conversion. Have you checked into that??
          Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

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            #50
            Well here is the thing, I technically own the mv now. I already took out the loan and handed that check over. I have insurance on it and already made my first loan payment too. The only thing that isn't complete is VR and me signing the paperwork so that VR can give them the check for the mods. VR is paying for all the mods.

            If I can't make this work (and it may very well be that I'm not use to physically going up a ramp like this daily yet and it does have the same incline as these other makes Dodge, Toyota, etc) then we will somehow have to get that loan check back and my down payment and the remote control start cost which I came up with myself, cancel the insurance and get any of that money back that I can and start from square one again. As many people know, with VR, this maybe a very long process because it already was. You have to do tons of paperwork on the exact vehicle and costs and then wait for approval. I'm not sure what happens with the loan, I give the check back to the bank and reapply for it later again. This is kinda a mess so hopefully it can be worked out. Like I said I'll call around and see what other ramps range in degrees.

            Did I just freak out the day I received it because everything wasn't perfect and I didn't get up the ramp like a pro? I've seen others freak out at first about vehicles and new wcs until they made it work.
            Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know that, so it goes on flying anyways--Mary Kay Ash

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              #51
              Novi it's always best to go with your gut & kill the deal if you don't think it's going to be right. It's best to get out early if you have to.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by canuck View Post
                Novi it's always best to go with your gut & kill the deal if you don't think it's going to be right. It's best to get out early if you have to.
                If I just knew the angle of other vans I would be good to go. Maybe if I compared height of all minivan vehicles where the ramp is when it's kneeled I could get an idea. I was told 7" is normal.
                Karl I just don't want to kill this deal and then find out all ramps are this angle and be back to purchasing one anyway. This process took literally over a year, close to two years and I may be out money then too.
                Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know that, so it goes on flying anyways--Mary Kay Ash

                Comment


                  #53
                  In floors may be lower(yes the lower number, is better) for most of it don't know, but there is a "lip" of a few inches at the very top, that is way steeper. I believe it is like 10 degrees. I tried one when I got my foldout, and I could not get over that lip at all(the lip, is the cover that drops down when the ramp slides out to make one continuous surface). I think slideouts are meant for powerchair users.

                  I will go to the Depot and get that tool and see what mine reads. It will not do decimals though, that would require an expensive tool. But we'll see if I'm in the 7's anyway.

                  e.t.a. Ramps are not a "picnic" roll. I have to get myself set, butt back so I can lean way forward, make sure brakes are out of the way(it sucks to smash a thumb 1/2 up the ramp), position my casters on the ramp, then start the push. So practice, definitely will make you better. fwiw
                  "a T10, who'd Rather be ridin'; than rollin'"

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by november View Post
                    Wouldn't in floor ramps be even less, but not according to Braun's chart.
                    in floors usually don't work for a quad, b/c the lip at the point where the ramp slides into the floor causes a sharp incline right at the end. they don't point that out when stating ramp angle in the brochure.

                    Originally posted by november View Post
                    So a bigger angle degree is a steeper incline, am I correct? A 7 degree would be easier than a 9?
                    yes.

                    Originally posted by november View Post
                    Scott the ElDorado conversion is dropped 12" too.
                    i know, but according to the hair on my head, there's a difference. i got into each van back to back, & my hair brushed the ceiling in the El Dorado but not the Braun, so there must be some difference.
                    "If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."
                    ...Mark Twain

                    I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
                    ...Winston Churchill

                    A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
                    ...George Bernard Shaw

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by ScottS View Post


                      i know, but according to the hair on my head, there's a difference. i got into each van back to back, & my hair brushed the ceiling in the El Dorado but not the Braun, so there must be some difference.
                      OK, after many phone calls the Braun conversion on GM has a 7.3 degree ramp angle when kneeled and the ElDorado has a 9.3 ramp angle when kneeled. The difference at the ramp/vehicle height is the Braun is 1.5" lower.
                      Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know that, so it goes on flying anyways--Mary Kay Ash

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by november View Post
                        OK, after many phone calls the Braun conversion on GM has a 7.3 degree ramp angle when kneeled and the ElDorado has a 9.3 ramp angle when kneeled. The difference at the ramp/vehicle height is the Braun is 1.5" lower.
                        Sheesh, that is a big difference. Wonder what El Dorado does differently(wrongly)?

                        Well, I bought the angle tool from the Depot. I'm not sure it is giving good readings. I measured both kneeled and kneel turned off. Off = ~12 degrees, kneeled = ~9-10 degrees. I do have different wheels/tires but they are within decimal points of being the same height as OEM. My garage reads level where it is sitting. Oh well.
                        "a T10, who'd Rather be ridin'; than rollin'"

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Ramp Rage

                          My new Toyota Sienna van has 17" wheels, vs the 15" on my late Dodge Caravan. Both are Braun conversions, but I need a spotter and sometimes a push when rolling up into the Toyota. I cannot lean forwad due to HO in left hip, hence the spotter.

                          Is there a wheel size difference between the Buick and Chevy?
                          You C.A.N.
                          Conquer Adversity Now

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Hmmm, now that you said that; My model of T&C came with 17"(now they're 18" with lo/pro tires), the other models come with 16" wheels. wonder if the lower angle numbers come from those models. interesting...
                            "a T10, who'd Rather be ridin'; than rollin'"

                            Comment


                              #59
                              I've been in a number of vans over the years and find every van different. So many things can be different, what model airbags used, what size fuel tank, etc. How much gas is in your van? It might be easier with a full tank.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by november View Post
                                Chick going up the ramp on your anti tippers? How did you not tip entirely backwards? Were you leaning totally forward. If I leaned back on my tippers on the ramp they wouldn't catch me.
                                Sorry for the late reply - had internet connection problems the past week.

                                Will you have time to wait for the hillholders sent by addie, to try before final decision and signing anything?

                                When I tried this (years ago now), I recall the chair popping up every time I pushed up, and at times staying up off frt casters even with my leaning forward. It was hard staying forward as I'd lose balance and control of my trunk pretty quickly and fall onto my lap, which would then require me to both use the tire for support AS I pushed it forward up the ramp. But, I would need to do this anyway, the entire way up the ramp, esp. from midpoint up. Also, my anti-tippers did support my chair with me in it, w/o flipping all the back over. Flipping over might have occurred if I sat straight up in the middle of the ramp or while pushing, but this wouldn't make sense nor did I ever need to. It would have been difficult to try sitting straight up anyway.

                                RE. anti-tippers on my chair, in general, they were strong enough to hold my chair in a tipped back position, when I popped the chair back with casters in the air. I'd do this occasionally, for the hell of it, or to sit leaning back a bit, w/o too much effort holding upper torso upright. This may have been more possible, as the angle of my anti-tips are not as 90 degree as I've seen on most chairs, and allows my casters to clear a few inches (~ 4" or so). See pic.

                                I think you may have it much easier once you try the ramp with the hillholders. You wouldn't need to exert any energy and strength in trying to hold the wheels steady or from rolling back.

                                The main concern I'd have is weather condition - that even if you improve, you still might require some extra time and effort in going up a steeper ramp, which would then be something to really consider during bad weather. Rain, cold, freezing snow or rain, for example, could make things pretty difficult, especially if you are needing to get on in the open. Having the van in a covered garage would be fine, but there is destination to consider, where you might not have this. If you get pretty efficient and can do this with relative ease, then weather may not be a great issue.

                                Ok. I won't be on much longer, so if you have questions about what I posted or just wanna chat, gimme a call!.

                                here is a picture, taken a few yrs ago, of my anti-tippers and their angle. You can also see the hillholders/stoppers attached with my brakes. (no comments re rust. it's ~ 15yrs old!)
                                Last edited by chick; 5 Mar 2009, 7:50 PM. Reason: adding pic

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