Announcement

**Leo** · 23 Aug 2007, 3:43 PM

Good luck Amanda,

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"What the world has to understand is that this is not an overnight thing," she said. Just as the gestation period for an embryo to become a human baby is nine months, the stem cells that have been injected into Boxtel's body will take nine months to continue to grow, and then will develop continuously for the next two to five years.

"It's critical that I play my part as well, continuing with physical exercise and therapy, and re-training my muscles and nerves. I'll continue to see improvement for the next two to five years, which is why it's critical that people understand that this is not an overnight, miracle fix. It's going to take some time to re-wire."

This initial treatment in Delhi came with a $30,000 price tag, which Boxtel managed to raise locally with the support of friends and acquaintances. She'll travel back to India for more treatments in the future - she's planning a trip for three weeks in December, in time for her 40th birthday.
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All makes great sense but why go back in Dec. when you know it takes many months to get the bang out from what's been done already?

**Aboxtel** · 25 Aug 2007, 7:09 PM

A Huge Step in Medical Treatment for Humanity!

Written by Amanda Boxtel: Patient of Dr. Geeta Shroff

A Huge Step in Medical Treatment for Humanity!

As a paraplegic, I have seen with my own eyes astounding improvements in many patients including quadriplegics who are now walking without the aid of leg braces! I am compelled to share my experiences with the world. After fifteen years of being in a wheelchair and two months of treatment, my toes are moving, my bladder and bowels are beginning to function again, I have increased muscle power in my legs, and hope is now a part of my vocabulary!

Based in Delhi, India, Dr. Geeta Shroff operates out of a brand new five-storey 20-bed hospital in Green Park, South Delhi. Dr. Shroff is an infertility expert and she is the very first individual to develop an infinite number of pure human embryonic stem cell lines from using just one embryo. Her partnering physician and anesthesiologist is Dr. Ashish Verma.

Dr. Shroff’s treatment is ground breaking. Every day we hear about other treatments around the globe regarding stem cells (fetal, umbilical cord, nasal, rats, mice etc.) and Dr. Geeta Shroff has developed the only purely human embryonic stem cell lines that do not show any immune reaction in the body (embryonic stem cells do not have any antigenic proteins on their surface and thus do not require immunosuppressant drugs). Dr. Shroff’s technology has involved the use of just one embryo. During her laboratory research she only used surplus embryos from an IVF donor who underwent a barrage of tests. A complex medical history and genetic history was conducted.

This is my best explanation and is partially extracted from Dr. Shroff’s book Human Embryonic Stem Cells: A Revolution in Therapeutics:

In the laboratory, the sperm fertilizes an egg and it becomes a zygote and these stem cells have the highest degree of plasticity (it can develop into any cell not only into an embryo, but also the surrounding tissues, such as the placenta-the term is referred to as “totipotent” stem cells). Thirty hours after an ovum is fertilized, the zygote begins to divide. By the fifth or sixth day, the cells form a “blastocyst”. These stem cells are somewhat less plastic and more specialized than the zygote. Those on the outer surface of the blastocyst develop into the placenta and other tissues that surround the fetus, while those inside, referred to as “embryonic stem cells”, become the cells of all the fetal organs and tissues. Such stem cells can differentiate into any of the more than 200 types of cells in the body and are referred to as “pluripotent”. The embryonic cells do not show any immune reaction as they do not have antigenic proteins on their surface. They also are able to multiply rapidly and Dr. Shroff has developed a method to extract these stem cells and create stem lines in a totally pure human product.

Human embryonic stem cells can divide and grow into any body part. However, in vivo conditions their division is not indefinite. The cells follow the normal division that is initially inherent in an embryo. The division slows down after a period of nine months. After the baby is delivered, the functioning capacity gradually increases as it would in a growing child. Milestones take place in a newborn growing into an infant and critical functions are required for the child to progress such as environmental factors, physical (motor) factors—like my daily physical therapy—and educational factors (learned mental development). In simple terms it can be said that the complete effect of human embryonic stem cells transplanted into a patient is closely linked with the time frame of the human embryo’s development. This is including nine months of gestation; and then the growth of a new born baby after delivery up until five years of age. Although response results in patients are seen immediately after transplantation, the embryonic stem cells continue their developmental process as per their pre-programmed time frame.

In my case scenario, I might be experiencing slight changes now, but as the stem cells “home in” to the injury site in my body, they differentiate and fire up the affected tissue and their neurons find new pathways to reconnect the synapses and the damaged tracts. I will have to be patient with my treatment in that I may not see results for several months or even two-to-five years down the road.

I have heard that Dr. Geeta Shroff can develop an infinite number of embryonic stem cell lines to cure all of humanity. I see her treatment as life giving life. In Dr. Ashish Verma’s own words: “This is as big as the discovery of fire. You have been injected with the most intelligent chip ever created. It is God given.”

All of Dr. Shroff’s patients generally become healthier and suffer fewer bouts of infection. Their body resistance to infection increases. The earlier a patient starts the human embryonic stem cell therapy, the faster the chances are for recovery (I have 15 years to work on as opposed to others who are more newly injured). In progressive and degenerative disorders the early start on stem cell therapy helps in stemming the disease or stabilizing the patient. Once stabilized, patients do show improvement. During my two month treatment, I witnessed three patients suffering from motor neuron disease (like ALS) and had been given a few months to live. With all three patients, they are stable, their condition isn’t worsening, and they are seeing slight improvements (regaining speech, strength, breathing capacity etc).

The human embryonic stem cell treatment has been used in a number of conditions in clinical trials. All have shown progress of some kind. To name a few: Autism; mental retardation; liver disorders; degenerative nervous system disorders: alzheimers, parkinsons, multiple sclerosis, motor neuron disease/ALS; cerebral palsy; traumatic brain injuries; various skin disorders; auto immune disorders—lupus; genetic disorders—down syndrome etc.; eye disorders; kidney disorders; musculoskeletal disorders—Duchenne’s muscular dystrophy etc.; spinal cord injuries; and cardiac patients. Yes, it seems that if you have problem of any sort in the body, she can fix it (especially if you are deemed terminally ill or incurable!).

Counter to research and opinions worldwide, Dr. Shroff’s technology avoids controversial and ethical issues:
Ø By using ONLY one human embryo to create innumerable stem lines that are pure, thus negating the use and destruction of many human embryos; cloning procedures; or the use of any animal stem cells such as those found in mice or rats.
Ø Human embryonic stem cells do not create any immune reaction in the body, as they do not have any antigenic proteins on their surface. This negates the need for immunosuppressant drugs.
Ø Human embryonic stem cells have the highest degree of plasticity and are “pluripotent” meaning they have the capability to differentiate into any of the more than 200 types of cells in the human body (including all blood types). Both fetal stem cells and adult stem cells under the right circumstance can be pluripotent if they are derived from the donor’s own body. The possible challenges of immune reactivity make these cells impossible to be used in auto-immune disorders.
Ø To my knowledge Dr. Shroff is the only person in the world who has conducted successful clinical applications on humans since the year 2002 on over 300 patients suffering from incurable ailments with zero adverse reactions.

Dr. Shroff has filed for a patent in both India and the United States, which covers 126 countries. It is out of her hands and she is waiting for their response.

With my layperson’s understanding, part of Dr. Shroff’s battle with medical communities and worldwide pharmaceutical companies comes down to the financial factor of those companies losing money. Billions of dollars are spent with drugs to “band-aid” treatments, and Dr. Shroff has the ultimate cure for many illnesses. Dr. Shroff does not claim to be an expert in every field but has specialized in infertility and stem cell treatment. She is a humble yet brilliant individual who will not allow such adversities to affect either her or her mission.

I encourage you to do your own research, see with your own eyes, and you too will be amazed by what is happening. I and many others are living proof that her treatment is working!

In summary, here is a list of the noticeable changes in my body that have taken place over the past two months of receiving human embryonic stem cell treatment. Keep in mind that I have sustained a spinal cord injury and paraplegia for 15 ½ years—since February 27, 1992. During that time, my disability has remained stable. While I have not regressed, I have definitely not shown any progress with muscle power or return of sensation. I have kept my legs supple and alive with regular massage and occasional acupuncture and acupressure, which contributed to my overall well-being. My active life-style was also a plus.

Human Embryonic Stem Cell Treatment—June 25-August 17, 2007
Report: August 17, 2007
· Swelling has reduced significantly.
· Spasticity is absent. I am more flexible and I no longer feel the stiffness in my legs.
· Muscle power in both legs has improved. I am able to take resistance while moving hips in abduction and adduction, and I can bend both knees at will. Hamstrings work on both legs (left is stronger); quadriceps in both thighs; glutemus maximus muscles in bottom (evident in backward crawl); contraction of muscles underneath both feet. Big toe on right foot moves up and down; and smaller middle toes on left foot wiggle. Deep sensation under both feet; pins and needles electrical tingles down both legs to toes. Deep sensation in my bottom. Overall heightened awareness and connectedness in my lower body to my toes. Muscle tone in legs has increased.
· Abdominal muscle strength has increased. I am able to apply pressure during bladder and bowel movements. Voiding urine ranges from 50% to completely emptying, depending on the time of day and fatigue.
· Back muscles are stronger down my spine giving me more balance and control.
· Nerve burning pain has subsided by 50%.
· Overall energy levels have increased.
· Most importantly, I have had zero negative side-effects from treatment.

My message is:
“Don’t give up hope. Instead, look forward to wellness. You have the opportunity to experience the gift of life with human embryonic stem cells. No matter what your ailment is, whether you are deemed incurable or terminally ill, you will get better!”

My Treatment Plan:
· First Treatment—2 month stay in Delhi @ US$30,000, which included stem cell treatment and accommodations for myself and a caregiver. Beginning September 1, 2007, all patients will be accommodated in her new hospital at Green Park.

This treatment included four spinal procedures, one spinal muscle procedure, and daily stem cell injections or intravenous infusions.

Note: Cost and treatment time frames will vary for each patient based on different medical conditions.

· Second Treatment—proposed for December, 2007 for three weeks. I will have a three-month interval between my first and second treatment. Cost is still to be determined.[/font]
· I am expected to have 4-6 additional treatments over the next two years depending on my progress.

Contacting Dr. Geeta Shroff:

Dr. Shroff requests to first email her a thorough description of your current medical condition. After her response, please call her directly on her mobile telephone below.

Email: geetashroff@hotmail.com
Mobile Telephone: +91-9810061275
Assistant: Dr. Ashish Verma

**Deep0423** · 25 Aug 2007, 9:26 PM

Dr. Wise, would you consider this procudure in India, the most advanced to date in the world?**Considering any return really happens** Or are their other in which you see more potential, perhaps the Chinese therapies and/or Australia? Spain?

**Keith** · 25 Aug 2007, 11:24 PM

I would spend $30,000 no problem at all, but there's no guarantee. Not leaving the good old USA, until it's proven. It's great people are trying hopefully we will learn something. Hopefully they are not doing any more damage to their bodies & if we'd ever find a repair for this they will still be able to do it. Keep us posted

**Deep0423** · 25 Aug 2007, 11:54 PM

This is what aggrevates me, I've been on this site for about 3 years now, although I just registered, and I here people after people speaking about endless surgeries/therapies abroad. But nothing is ever proven. The Russian site has video's of people literally walking out of the clinic. I've read several posts of people here getting return from the Russian center also, including sexual and B&B return. Now in India, people are making "progress" also. I guess my real question/concern is, is there ever going to be a medical body to confirm that these such "treatments" are credible. That people ARE getting better, that they ARE getting return.

**George78** · 26 Aug 2007, 5:17 AM

I agree with Deep, if everything we read on CareCure forums concerning therapies was the truth, we have the cure. Always the same question: where are the thousands of spinal cord injured men and women that have been involved in those so-called successful therapies?.. Can't believe they don't talk about their recoveries..
G78

**Wise Young** · 26 Aug 2007, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Aboxtel

Counter to research and opinions worldwide, Dr. Shroff’s technology avoids controversial and ethical issues:
Ø By using ONLY one human embryo to create innumerable stem lines that are pure, thus negating the use and destruction of many human embryos; cloning procedures; or the use of any animal stem cells such as those found in mice or rats.
Ø Human embryonic stem cells do not create any immune reaction in the body, as they do not have any antigenic proteins on their surface. This negates the need for immunosuppressant drugs.
Ø Human embryonic stem cells have the highest degree of plasticity and are “pluripotent” meaning they have the capability to differentiate into any of the more than 200 types of cells in the human body (including all blood types). Both fetal stem cells and adult stem cells under the right circumstance can be pluripotent if they are derived from the donor’s own body. The possible challenges of immune reactivity make these cells impossible to be used in auto-immune disorders.
Ø To my knowledge Dr. Shroff is the only person in the world who has conducted successful clinical applications on humans since the year 2002 on over 300 patients suffering from incurable ailments with zero adverse reactions.

Let me comment briefly on the several claims here.
• The use of ONLY one human embryo. I question this claim. The term "embryonic stem cells" usually refer to cells derived from the blastocyst but some people also call fetuses embryos as well. Knowing how difficult it is to grow cells from blastocysts, I doubt very much that Geeta Shroff has grown embryonic stem cells from a human blastocyst. If she has done so, it was probably grown after killing many blastocysts.
• There is no evidence that this is an embryonic stem cell line. Is it pluripotent? Is it really capable of producing all the different type of cells that has been claimed. What is the evidence that it produces all the different kinds of cells. Do these cells produce neurons? The standards for demonstrating that one has an embryonic stem cell line are very clear and well-established. Are these embryonic stem cells? Are they fetal stem cells?
• How are the cells being given? According to descriptions on this site, they are being injected intramuscularly. How are these cells getting into the nervous system, into the spinal cord or brain, or the organs of any of the many diseases that Dr. Shroff is claiming to have cured? The claim that the cells are "homing" into the diseased sites is speculative at best and needs to be documented.
• Growing embryonic stem cells. It is very difficult to grow embryonic stem cells so that the cells remain stem cells. This is of course the reason why it took over two decades for scientists to learn how to grow human embryonic stem cells. The natural tendency of stem cells is to differentiate or die. They require factors that are still not well-understood, factors that are provided by feeder cells and fetal serum. The great challenge in embryonic stem cell research has been learning how to grow and maintain the cells without feeder cells or fetal bovine serum. How are the cells being grown?
• Pre-differentiation of the cells. The natural tendency of embryonic stem cells when transplanted is to produce many different kinds of cells. Undifferentiated stem cells produce teratomas. A teratoma is an embryonic stem cell tumor that contain many kinds of cells, including skin, hair, and other cells. Embryonic stem cells are the only cells that can produce all the different kinds of cells of the body all by themselves. Unlike adult stem cells that require interaction with other cells, embryonic stem cells can do it by themselves. That is why embryonic stem cells must be pre-differentiated before they are transplanted. The fact that Dr. Shroff may not pre-differentiating or never talks about this is worrisome.
• Immune rejection of the cells. How does Dr. Shroff know that the cells are not being rejected? Has she tested it in animals and shown that it is not rejected. How does she know that it is not being rejected in her patients? Has she shown the long lasting chimerism in the patients' blood? While embryonic stem cells may not make any antigens that would lead to rejection, this is not true of the progeny of the cells, i.e. other cells that the stem cells make. In the end, immune reactions do matter.
• Zero adverse reactions.. This are only three possible explanations for a claim of "zero adverse reactions". First, they are not monitoring for adverse reactions. Second, the cells are dying after transplantation (either because they do not survive transplantation or are being rejected) and therefore are not present to cause adverse reactions. Third, she is lying about the absence of adverse reactions. None of these reflect well on Dr. Shroff.
• The cells cure everything. In the end, it is the outrageous claims of cure-all ability of the cells that convinced me that this is a scam. The suggestion that embryonic stem cells are so "smart" that they know how to cure everything (or that she would allow people to say these things on her behalf) suggests that Dr. Shroff does not know much about stem cells. However, the fact that people are not getting tumors suggests that she is not transplanting embryonic stem cells or the cells are simply dying or rejected after transplant. That fact that she claims to be curing everything despite the above suggests that it is all a scam.

In the end, despite all the talk, there is no evidence whatsoever that Dr. Shroff has embryonic stem cells or knows very much about embryonic stem cells. I don't think that Dr. Shroff knows very much about spinal cord injury or the other diseases that she is treating. This is a very dangerous combination of ignorances. Because some CareCure members have received the therapy and have their hopes pinned on the therapies, I have been hesitant to be critical. My sincerest apologies to those who have received the treatment and are waiting the 2-5 years to get better. I don't mean to dash your hopes. However, in my opinion, this is a scam and people should avoid this treatment.

Wise.

**Kratos** · 26 Aug 2007, 10:47 AM

i have a brother 10y old and even he knows that there is no cure for sci, so dr.young or any other cc member.. dont waste your time on scams like this.

**Wise Young** · 26 Aug 2007, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Ivica Rod

i have a brother 10y old and even he knows that there is no cure for sci, so dr.young or any other cc member.. dont waste your time on scams like this.

Ivica,

With all due respect to your brother, I do believe that there is a cure for spinal cord injury. However, the cure is just not what Geeta Shroff claims it is. I would not waste my breath on her and what she is claiming except for the fact that she has treated many people who are CareCure members. While I do not want to discourage people to post about their experience on this site, it is critical that I speak up when incredible claims are being made.

I recently had lunch with a very good friend and he asked me why he shouldn't just take his son to India to get this treatment. What does he have to lose? All of his friends are calling him about this famous woman in India who is curing spinal cord injury. Why doesn't he just go ahead and do it. It seems safe enough. What is the harm? Besides, it costs less than a new car.

Some time ago, I discussed the features of a medical scam. Let me distill it down to four cardinal features of a scam. Geeta Shroff has all the hallmarks.
• The treatment is completely safe (100% safe, never an adverse reaction of any sort).
• The treatment cures everything (or there is nothing that the treatment cannot cure).
• The treatment costs are similar to a Volkswagon (a Hyundai or some other cheap car).
• The doctor claims to have some secret proprietary knowledge (that nobody else has).

Wise.

**Beth29** · 26 Aug 2007, 1:05 PM

Originally posted by Wise Young

Some time ago, I discussed the features of a medical scam. Let me distill it down to four cardinal features of a scam. Geeta Shroff has all the hallmarks.
• The treatment is completely safe (100% safe, never an adverse reaction of any sort).
• The treatment cures everything (or there is nothing that the treatment cannot cure).
• The treatment costs are similar to a Volkswagon (a Hyundai or some other cheap car).
• The doctor claims to have some secret proprietary knowledge (that nobody else has).

Wise.

Reading this, I am reminded of the old movie Westerns where the covered wagon rides into town and the people gather 'round listening to the guy selling the miracle cure that comes in a brown bottle. It can fix anything!

Our scams haven't changed much over the years have they?

Thanks for the reminder!

**Deep0423** · 26 Aug 2007, 2:20 PM

So how about the claim of people actually getting return from these therapies? I mean, Naomi from Colorado is claiming to have regained alot of leg function. This either means, the treament somehow worked or she is not being completely honest. And I'm not here to dis-credit anyone, I'm just simply speaking logically w/ Dr. Wise. Samething with treatments from Russia?

And I guess this is what drives us para's/quads to these therapies. That some of us, including me, are so desperate to believe in a cure, that as soon as we here people getting back returns like these, we automatically believe that there's something out there.

**Wise Young** · 26 Aug 2007, 2:31 PM

Originally posted by Beth29

Reading this, I am reminded of the old movie Westerns where the covered wagon rides into town and the people gather 'round listening to the guy selling the miracle cure that comes in a brown bottle. It can fix anything!

Our scams haven't changed much over the years have they?

Thanks for the reminder!

Beth,

You are welcome. By the way, I do want to apologize for suggesting that a Volkswagon or a Hyundai is "cheap". I do not mean to imply that either of these cars are bad and should state for the record that I think that both of these brands are good cars and provide good value.

Although tongue-in-cheek, my remark points out that the cost of scams have remarkably tracked the cost of economy cars. Why should this be? Perhaps it is because the purveyors of medical scams are aiming at the lower "affordable" level of discretionary funding as car manufacturers.

Purveyors of medical scams have a good sense of the "barf" level of Americans. I use to word to indicate the level when a person starts to regurgitate and is no longer interested in the product. That price is in the range of $20,000 to $23,000, close to the price of a Volkswagon or Hyundai, for the same reason that these companies priced the products at that level.

If they price it too low, people don't believe that it is any good. For example, if somebody said that they have a cure for $5000, some people will say that it is not believable because it is too cheap. If they price it at $50,000, some people may believe but most cannot afford it.

I really don't know what Geeta Shroff charges for the procedure. However, I would be willing to bet that it is on the order of US$20,000 or more.

Wise.

**chasb** · 26 Aug 2007, 2:39 PM

Amanda Boxtel is a motivational speaker by profession. I would be interested to learn if Amanda was paid in ANY WAY, shape or form, for her post above. It appears to be an advertisement for Dr. Geeta Shroff.

While I believe Amanda wishes to improve her condition, as we all do. I don't believe Dr. Shroff is the solution.

**Wise Young** · 26 Aug 2007, 2:40 PM

Originally posted by Deep0423

So how about the claim of people actually getting return from these therapies? I mean, Naomi from Colorado is claiming to have regained alot of leg function. This either means, the treament somehow worked or she is not being completely honest. And I'm not here to dis-credit anyone, I'm just simply speaking logically w/ Dr. Wise. Samething with treatments from Russia?

And I guess this is what drives us para's/quads to these therapies. That some of us, including me, are so desperate to believe in a cure, that as soon as we here people getting back returns like these, we automatically believe that there's something out there.

I too am not here to criticize people who claim to have recovered. On the other hand, I think that evidence for extensive recovery is relatively rare and often occurs in patients who are "incomplete", who did not engage in extensive rehabilitation before, and who worked hard to recover after the treatment. I applaud such recovery but don't think that it is necessarily due to the treatment.

Many people recover, for many reasons. I have also read of many people who have not recovered but are "waiting for recovery" because it takes 2-5 years. Some will tell you that they feel better, stronger, healthier, etc. Almost all believe and want desperately to get some return.

Weight-supported walking on treadmills restored walking in 75% of people with "incomplete" spinal cord injury. Many people don't even require a machine to do that... In fact, the primary ingredient underlying all recovery is belief in recovery.

That is why it is important to have rigorous and well-designed clinical trials. Note that I had earlier criticized Beike Technology for the same reason because they also rely on anecodotal statements from individual patients and are not making the effort to do followups.

Wise.

Announcement

Stem cell treatment helps Boxtel regain strength

Stem cell treatment helps Boxtel regain strength

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