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    Originally posted by Lindox
    The study Bob posted has me baffled. And the reasons the researchers give for it taking years to maybe go into clinical use..well they didn't. WHY?

    I can understand this statement when reporting rodent results..with primates I don't understand it.

    They reported NO tumor formation..no toxic anything and positive results. What will they need to do to bring this to the human Parkinson's population?

    What model will be the defining model if a monkey isn't? HUMANS maybe. Or gorillas? If this study were done on say chimps would the same statements apply?

    They need to explain their statements not just make them.
    "promising, but it will be years before..." has become boiler plate in the press reports of "promising discoveries". Meanwhile, most of us don't understand what goes on day to day. We are told that money will speed things up, but how? What will money buy that will push cure forward? Is it available for purchase?

    As Dr. Young wrote in a previous post, scores of SCI people currently travel to the ends of the earth to give their bodies and wealth to cure charlatans. There seems to be an adequate supply of humans that would willingly, no, gratefully, offer themselves as test subjects in even the most experimental studies. It seems criminal that no one is offering anything to these desperate people that will produce useful cure data.
    Foolish

    "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

    "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

    Comment


      Originally posted by Foolish Old
      "promising, but it will be years before..." has become boiler plate in the press reports of "promising discoveries". Meanwhile, most of us don't understand what goes on day to day. We are told that money will speed things up, but how? What will money buy that will push cure forward? Is it available for purchase?

      As Dr. Young wrote in a previous post, scores of SCI people currently travel to the ends of the earth to give their bodies and wealth to cure charlatans. There seems to be an adequate supply of humans that would willingly, no, gratefully, offer themselves as test subjects in even the most experimental studies. It seems criminal that no one is offering anything to these desperate people that will produce useful cure data.
      Exactly FO.
      Why years after "promising" in primates?
      The monkeys got BETTER. No tumors..nothing negative.
      The ones that didn't have the cells didn't get better.

      What exactly is holding it back for YEARS?
      The researchers really need to tell us. If it's the availabilty of the cells..we deal with that and find ways to mass produce. Is it the method is too expensive to mass produce? Then we deal with that.
      I just don't understand. Why even put it in the press if they are so sure it's years away.

      I guess to interest private industry..yeah right. YEARS away isn't their favorite two words.
      If they have to use a closer relative..why didn't they use the chimp in the first place? After the rodent studies. They did in AIDS and other conditions.

      Maybe now we need three-toed sleuths or something.
      They were monkey for heaven sakes. They have five little fingers and are VERY close to us also.

      Then the scientists wonder why there are animal rights activists. Good God go forward and quit the dramatics.
      Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

      Comment


        Foolish,
        Is there a way to unite patient organisations or to say diagnosis organisations to come together and work for common goals? All of them. I’ve and some researchers here have been working on some ideas. Today I’ve phoned a bunch of those organisations all day today over here and think that could be the way to go, they (leaders of those org.) was very pleased for such an initiative, you see our SCI org here is not that big (to few), but seems like me and some researchers now at least can make a historical event over here –united is the key word, can’t say too much but looks like an really joint venture, horizontal discussions with a lot of good people, national organisations and scientists under the same parole/banner. The plan is in short; a big uproar to get more funding for medical research from our lying politicians that actually promised focus on medical research before the last elections, well, nothing happens, and so on so far, but now I believe the authorities can’t dismiss us for the upcoming united action/plan in mind (which 8 of our org. so fare was very positive for, the biggest as well, and all know what those are - will contact others "org" next week). We will simply be too many not to take notice of. It will happen after summer, before final gov budget closing time.
        I think this is very good, working together for common goals along with our scientists.
        Last edited by Leif; 15 Jun 2007, 5:41 PM.

        Comment


          What I would like to know is.
          Monkey has severe Parkinson symptoms. Monkey is treated with neural stem cells. Monkey shows improvement in movement, eating and other physical functions. WHAT is the holdup? Why wouldn't this be penciled in for ASAP human trials?

          Monkey didn't have any negative reactions to the treatment. More monkey treatments to other monkey. SAME story. How many monkeys will it take.. a barrel full of them?

          What successful treatment will it take to just for once jump in with both feet?
          Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Lindox
            What I would like to know is.
            Monkey has severe Parkinson symptoms. Monkey is treated with neural stem cells. Monkey shows improvement in movement, eating and other physical functions. WHAT is the holdup? Why wouldn't this be penciled in for ASAP human trials?

            Monkey didn't have any negative reactions to the treatment. More monkey treatments to other monkey. SAME story. How many monkeys will it take.. a barrel full of them?

            What successful treatment will it take to just for once jump in with both feet?
            The hold-up is money. Remember how promising BLSI thought Inosine was for SCI. However, they never took it to trial because they couldn't raise the capital.

            Comment


              Originally posted by antiquity
              The hold-up is money. Remember how promising BLSI thought Inosine was for SCI. However, they never took it to trial because they couldn't raise the capital.
              That seems to be the going trend doesn't it?
              Do these researchers PLAN to treat more monkeys?

              Where is that money coming from?
              Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

              Comment


                Originally posted by antiquity
                The hold-up is money. Remember how promising BLSI thought Inosine was for SCI. However, they never took it to trial because they couldn't raise the capital.
                I don't think money for a trial, in this case is the reason, if it were they wouldn't say they need several more years to get to clinical trial in humans. They would leave the door open if they were ready, so if money finally appeared they could go to trial. I see that other researchers credibility is not important here. You are actually saying the researchers lied because they couldn't get funding and therefore said their work wasn't ready. How do you know that?

                Comment


                  To me this just goes back to the fact that the whole process is just too inefficient and obviously too costly...

                  This is why I feel that if the researcher that did this study with the primates decided take his findings elsewhere and actually apply it to humans even for a fee I would have no problems. People would say its unethical but by my standards its humane. either something works or it doesn't a trial can't change that. But I do feel data should be collected regardless of whether the procedure is performed as an experiment or as trial. theres no better proof in my book than positive data (although according to the article linked in this thread even that may not mean anything).

                  One thing I've come to find out from speaking to people in the research industry is that there is a lot of competition in that field and there also is a lot of pressure. things can get pretty cut throat...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Lindox
                    What I would like to know is.
                    Monkey has severe Parkinson symptoms. Monkey is treated with neural stem cells. Monkey shows improvement in movement, eating and other physical functions. WHAT is the holdup? Why wouldn't this be penciled in for ASAP human trials?

                    Monkey didn't have any negative reactions to the treatment. More monkey treatments to other monkey. SAME story. How many monkeys will it take.. a barrel full of them?

                    What successful treatment will it take to just for once jump in with both feet?
                    Lindox, blame your legal system if anything. Monkeys cant sue if they dont get the intended results, and neither can foreigners that take experimental treatrments in other countries.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Eric.S
                      One thing I've come to find out from speaking to people in the research industry is that there is a lot of competition in that field and there also is a lot of pressure. things can get pretty cut throat...
                      Hi Eric, don’t know who you know, but that is not my experience, not at all if wanting to do some to do some.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Leif
                        Hi Eric, don’t know who you know, but that is not my experience, not at all if wanting to do some to do some.

                        I dont understand the "wanting to do some to do some" portion on your post but my point is basically that many researchers have pressure to show good results when so much money has be put towards there work.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Eric.S
                          I dont understand the "wanting to do some to do some" portion on your post but my point is basically that many researchers have pressure to show good results when so much money has be put towards there work.
                          Very true Eric!

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by bocasci
                            I don't think money for a trial, in this case is the reason, if it were they wouldn't say they need several more years to get to clinical trial in humans. They would leave the door open if they were ready, so if money finally appeared they could go to trial. I see that other researchers credibility is not important here. You are actually saying the researchers lied because they couldn't get funding and therefore said their work wasn't ready. How do you know that?
                            nice job trying to twist my words. what i said was that inosine showed tremendous promise for sci but the company that purchased rights to its use never took it to trial because they couldn't raise the capital. they have now purchased the rights to cethrin and are in the process of trying to raise the capital to further develop that. it all comes down to money. people act like operating a lab, paying technicians, assistants, researchers, covering the utilities, purchasing equipment and animals etc is free or that it can be done without money. small animal trials cost money, primate trials cost even more money and human trials cost millions. it costs approximately 800 million to move 1 treatment from bench to bedside. it's why researchers in all fields, not just sci, are raising the alarm about the impending nih cuts. if the feds put more limits on the number and extent of funding that researchers receive, especially those affiliated with universities, we'll see even more delays. as wise pointed out, young neuroscientists are abandoning the field in droves or refusing to enter it because the prospect of receiving adequate funding and government support are so bleak.

                            NIH cuts threaten research
                            Last edited by antiquity; 15 Jun 2007, 9:53 PM.

                            Comment


                              When you used the inosine affair you said its about the money. Were you not trying to say the same problem existed with the Parkinsons Monkey trial that prevented it from moving up to a trial in humans? I don't know much about the trial you mentioned with inosine. For all I know you may be right. I just didn't think it fair to conclude the same reasoning held true for the parkinsons monkey trial as the inosine.

                              When research grants are offered they maybe 300,000 a year for a period of a few years, some are larger. If the research money is scarce, we should make sure something is worthy of going to a 50-100 million dollar clinical trial. Could it be we should look into mini trials first?




                              Originally posted by antiquity
                              nice job trying to twist my words. what i said was that inosine showed tremendous promise for sci but the company that purchased rights to its use never took it to trial because they couldn't raise the capital. they have now purchased the rights to cethrin and are in the process of trying to raise the capital to further develop that. it all comes down to money. people act like operating a lab, paying technicians, assistants, researchers, covering the utilities, purchasing equipment and animals etc is free or that it can be done without money. small animal trials cost money, primate trials cost even more money and human trials cost millions. it's why researchers in all fields, not just sci, are raising the alarm about the impending nih cuts. if the feds put more limits on the number and extent of funding researchers, especially those affiliated with universities, receive, we'll see even more delays. as wise pointed out, young neuroscientists are abandoning the field in droves or refusing to enter it because the prospect of receiving adequate funding and government support are so bleak.

                              NIH cuts threaten research
                              Last edited by bocasci; 15 Jun 2007, 10:12 PM.

                              Comment


                                ahoy. my two frends(c4,5) are going to see dr.lima today in florence italy, what do they have to lose? (back to the topic)
                                http://www.facebook.com/ivicamaotze.rod

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