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    Originally posted by bocasci
    If it's there you know the funds won't sit there waiting for a good trial to come along, so I think much will be spent on treatments not ready to be tested. I thought researchers learn in the lab, and experiment there, and test a product in a trial, not the other way around except for allowable tweaking.
    Do you know of a lab that can provide humans equipped with spinal cord injuries?

    Were not speaking of the average product in development here.
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      Currently there are many treatments going on, Huang, Lima, and many more. And there is no improvement to speak of. Do we really have anything that different to try? Miami Project gets alot of abuse here because they aren't rushing to trials even though they have the means to carry them out. Yes, it is frustrating. But the answer is not just to start trials when there is not enough supporting information for a good outcome. I don't suggest we don't need to do trials, they serve a purpose. We heard much hype on a cure in 5 years many times over. Lets not over hype clinical trial networks also. And trials can take place without a network.

      Comment


        Originally posted by parapete
        Hey Spider,

        Just got back from Cali a couple weeks ago. Was there for a athletic coaching seminar in Long Beach but went to Beverly hills and got my hair cut at Umbertos. Was best hair cut i have had, though it better be for 45 bucks plus tip. Oh well, it was the experience i was paying for. Was planning on hitting some nightclubs but between the seminar and my buddy getting sick, we only made it to one divebar, Shannons in Long beach. Was doing shots with the college kids all night hahaha. Oh, and ate mexican food at Eduardo's border grill in Beverly hills.

        Anyway, i want the BBS over the walking, though i think the latter will be first.
        Hi Para...

        That's very cool, I am glad you had a good experience. I haven't really been to Long Beach ( i think once when i was younger ) but Umbertos is very chic and they do great eyebrows
        $45.00 is a great price ( bc I am assuming ur a male ) it's cheaper.


        Eduardos is cool too but El Coyote ( West Hollywood ) or Don Cucus ( Burbank) is best Mex in LA handzzz down.

        I hope you are right about the latter about walking before BBS. I just kinda base things off of intuition.
        Last edited by spidergirl; 15 Jun 2007, 1:40 AM.
        Birds Fly in Flocks, but Eagles Fly Alone...

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          Originally posted by betheny

          Were not speaking of the average product in development here.
          So true. That is why we should not rush to trials. There are ways to distinguish without much doubt how safe and effective a treatment could be before using human guinea pigs.

          Primates with severe Parkinson's disease were able to walk, move, and eat better, and had diminished tremors after being injected with human neural stem cells, a research team from Yale, Harvard, the University of Colorado, and the Burnham Institute report in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
          These results are promising, but it will be years before it is known whether a similar procedure would have therapeutic value for humans, said the lead author, D. Eugene Redmond Jr., professor of psychiatry and neurosurgery at Yale.

          "Not only are stem cells a potential source of replacement cells, they also seem to have a whole variety of effects that normalize other abnormalities," Redmond said. "The human neural stem cells implanted into the primates survived, migrated, and had a functional impact. It's an important step, but there are a number of studies that need to be done before determining if this would be of any value in clinical settings."
          http://www.news-medical.net:80/?id=26307

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            I haven't noticed anyone rushing to human trials. Of course, I'm paralyzed so it all seems pretty slow.

            So Bob, you're opposed to clinical trials and clinical trial networks...what do you favor to get us un-paralyzed? You used to complain that it all took too long, and that scientists were lining their pockets by dragging their feet. Do you have a new theory, or are you just being contrary?
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              Originally posted by bocasci
              Currently there are many treatments going on, Huang, Lima, and many more. And there is no improvement to speak of. Do we really have anything that different to try? Miami Project gets alot of abuse here because they aren't rushing to trials even though they have the means to carry them out. Yes, it is frustrating. But the answer is not just to start trials when there is not enough supporting information for a good outcome. I don't suggest we don't need to do trials, they serve a purpose. We heard much hype on a cure in 5 years many times over. Lets not over hype clinical trial networks also. And trials can take place without a network.
              I would be interested in reading others responses to this comment. Is a clinical trial network putting the cart before the horse? I mean, are there promising therapies ready/near ready for trial? Is the hold-up the lack of a clinical trial network, or the lack of promising trial ready treatments? I do understand that funding is needed to move any cure research forward. The question is not if cure research needs additional funding, but how limited funds should be spent in the near term.

              This gets back to my question on timing. I know that no reputable scientist can tell us when an effective cure/treatment will be available. But, is there any reputable scientist ready to project a date that they would support a human trial of a specific promising therapy? Or is this a "build it (clinical trial network) and they (clinical trials of promising therapies) will come" proposition? This is not a rhetorical question, but a question that seeks an informed answer. And I'm not needing to be scolded for asking if the answer already has been presented. Please just provide a link if this question has a current answer already available.

              Thank you.
              Last edited by Foolish Old; 15 Jun 2007, 11:40 AM.
              Foolish

              "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

              "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

              "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

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                Originally posted by Foolish Old
                This gets back to my question on timing. I know that no reputable scientist can tell us when an effective cure will be available. But, is there any reputable scientist ready to project a date that they would support a human trail of a specific promising therapy? Or is this a "build it (clinical trial network) and they (clinical trials of promising therapies) will come" proposition? This is not a rhetorical question, but a question that seeks an informed answer. And I'm not needing to be scolded for asking if the answer already has been presented. Please just provide a link if this question has a current answer already available.

                Thank you.
                Did you mean just in the US?

                Dr. Young, at least, seems to "support a human trail of a specific promising therapy", and has a lot of people engaged in that work in China.

                Their (the Chinese) advantage is that they have the large number of facilities engaged, doctors trained, result-gathering standardized and structure for central data collection in place. A clinical trial network, to weed out the losers and speed up the winners.

                There are clinical trials going on in the U.S. now, only for acutes, to my knowledge (which could def be better). It is slow going without the network in place. Proneuron springs to mind. It closed last yr due to funding but is running again, last I heard. (Spoke to the CEO's assistant in March.)

                Leading scientists seem to feel their work would move faster with a clinical trial network. I believe them. I've not heard any of them speak of a fear that we would not have therapies to be tested.

                I've heard of more doctors ready to start testing on humans. These below, not sure of the status of all of them at this moment, this is just from the sticky topic at the top of the Cure forum:

                /forum/showthread.php?t=66683

                I hope I don't seem to be scolding...
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                  Originally posted by betheny
                  Did you mean just in the US?

                  Dr. Young, at least, seems to "support a human trail of a specific promising therapy", and has a lot of people engaged in that work in China.

                  Their (the Chinese) advantage is that they have the large number of facilities engaged, doctors trained, result-gathering standardized and structure for central data collection in place. A clinical trial network, to weed out the losers and speed up the winners.

                  There are clinical trials going on in the U.S. now, only for acutes, to my knowledge (which could def be better). It is slow going without the network in place. Proneuron springs to mind. It closed last yr due to funding but is running again, last I heard. (Spoke to the CEO's assistant in March.)

                  Leading scientists seem to feel their work would move faster with a clinical trial network. I believe them. I've not heard any of them speak of a fear that we would not have therapies to be tested.

                  I've heard of more doctors ready to start testing on humans. These below, not sure of the status of all of them at this moment, this is just from the sticky topic at the top of the Cure forum:

                  /forum/showthread.php?t=66683

                  I hope I don't seem to be scolding...
                  Thanks for the link. I skimmed it - currently eleven pages of posts, many with links to other information. It will take me a while to digest all that...

                  My question is specifically aimed toward an American, publicly funded clinical trial network as proposed in CDRPA. I try to do my homework on issues I support, and frankly, I don't feel like I have a good grasp of all the issues involved, let alone convincing answers. I'm not much good at blind faith, though there may be times when it is the only way to proceed. There seem to be different things being said by scientist, professional fund raisers, competing companies seeking investors, various CC posters, ... Could you link me to "Leading scientists" statements in support of funding an American clinical trial network.

                  Thank you.
                  Last edited by Foolish Old; 15 Jun 2007, 1:00 PM.
                  Foolish

                  "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

                  "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

                  "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

                  Comment


                    Very good questions that need to be answered. Just as research grants are reviewed by an outside review board, many of your questions FO, may not get a reply in disagreement with Dr. Youngs opinion here.

                    Originally posted by Foolish Old
                    I would be interested in reading others responses to this comment. Is a clinical trial network putting the cart before the horse? I mean, are there promising therapies ready/near ready for trial? Is the hold-up the lack of a clinical trial network, or the lack of promising trial ready treatments? I do understand that funding is needed to move any cure research forward. The question is not if cure research needs additional funding, but how limited funds should be spent in the near term.

                    This gets back to my question on timing. I know that no reputable scientist can tell us when an effective cure/treatment will be available. But, is there any reputable scientist ready to project a date that they would support a human trial of a specific promising therapy? Or is this a "build it (clinical trial network) and they (clinical trials of promising therapies) will come" proposition? This is not a rhetorical question, but a question that seeks an informed answer. And I'm not needing to be scolded for asking if the answer already has been presented. Please just provide a link if this question has a current answer already available.

                    Thank you.

                    Comment


                      Foolish Old-

                      I can look for links, but actually heard the comments in person.

                      Bob-Why are you here? Since you are, why don't you answer my questions, you conspiray theorist you.
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                        Originally posted by bocasci
                        Very good questions that need to be answered. Just as research grants are reviewed by an outside review board, many of your questions FO, may not get a reply in disagreement with Dr. Youngs opinion here.
                        I don't care what opinions are offered, pro or con. I just hope they provide convincing evidence. Some posters seem to have an axe to grind.

                        Not that it matters to the discussion, but I always find it easier to converse with posters that have filled out some profile information. This is especially true when they have a limited number of posts attributed to their screen name.
                        Foolish

                        "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

                        "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

                        "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

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                          Originally posted by betheny
                          Foolish Old-

                          I can look for links, but actually heard the comments in person.

                          Bob-Why are you here? Since you are, why don't you answer my questions, you conspiray theorist you.
                          Would it be a breach of confidence to share some of the information learned in those personal conversations? Like who and why?
                          Foolish

                          "We have met the enemy and he is us."-POGO.

                          "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."~Edgar Allan Poe

                          "Dream big, you might never wake up!"- Snoop Dogg

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Foolish Old
                            I don't care what opinions are offered, pro or con. I just hope they provide convincing evidence. Some posters seem to have an axe to grind.

                            Not that it matters to the discussion, but I always find it easier to converse with posters that have filled out some profile information. This is especially true when they have a limited number of posts attributed to their screen name.
                            It is not an axe to grind. It is more about being able to share ideas. There is a lockhold on direction in this community. May I remind you about Chris C's experience.

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                              The study Bob posted has me baffled. And the reasons the researchers give for it taking years to maybe go into clinical use..well they didn't. WHY?

                              I can understand this statement when reporting rodent results..with primates I don't understand it.

                              They reported NO tumor formation..no toxic anything and positive results. What will they need to do to bring this to the human Parkinson's population?

                              What model will be the defining model if a monkey isn't? HUMANS maybe. Or gorillas? If this study were done on say chimps would the same statements apply?

                              They need to explain their statements not just make them.
                              Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Foolish Old
                                Would it be a breach of confidence to share some of the information learned in those personal conversations? Like who and why?
                                Nope, not a breach, just going back a way to casual conversations engaged in by a brain w/ too much thyroid hormone. The same week I talk to scientists is my highest stress week of the year, so I get cloudy. I'll have to collect myself to pull them out!
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