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ASIA Rating/Surviving Axons/ Remyelination/Recovery

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    ASIA Rating/Surviving Axons/ Remyelination/Recovery

    Remyelination therapies, from all indications, are beginning to surface. So the logical question would seem to be who could potentially benefit the most or consequently the least.

    Since the objective of remyelination therapies are to re-insulate surviving denuded axons that traverse the injury site, then obviously the greater the number of potentially repairable axons you have, the greater the recovery.

    Therefore my objective is to try to determine which ASIA rating would potentially be a "yes" for remyelination therapies, and where or if a "no" exists. Based on this deduction, one would assume an ASIA A would benefit the least, but how much could an ASIA B benefit, or a C for that matter? Ambulation is attainable at ASIA D.

    We need a combination therapy that not only remyelinates, but also grows new axons as well. We're not there yet, but single modality remyelination therapies appear to be emerging.

    #2
    Schmecky, re-myelination therapies have been here for a while, at the experimental stage of course. Like I have often said, many pieces of the puzzle are already here, at the experimental or inception stage.

    What happens is that SCI is a highly heterogeneous injury, and the treatment combo will have to be designed in a customized manner for every patient.

    I think it is entirely possible that an ASIA A can have lots of axons that, if remyelinated, could turn this person into an ASIA D. Conversely, we can have an ASIA C whose main problem is not remyelination. So I believe ASIA will not be a predictor of who is going to benefit.

    If I am going to chose an experimental therapy for myself, I want to have a clear MRI picture of what´s going on with the cord, as well as info derived from the physical examination. Then I would pick and choose among the numerous therapies already available.

    Brain
    Cord: gap? tethering? scar? septation? cysts? etc
    Spinal roots
    Nerves (some SCIs have accompanying peripheral nerve damage, unknown to them)
    Myelin
    Muscles
    Joints

    No reason why one cannot address all of these sequentially. Because I have always believed that good, solid, effective combos are 20-30 years away.

    Comment


      #3
      I think I might just be smiling! CRPA going forward and Schmecky sharing his sense of hope that science is emerging with therapies that will bring about a cure.

      Bring on 2007!

      My resolution for the new year was to spend more time advocating for a cure. I think I'm getting an early start!

      Thanks for your positive outlook Schmecky! I respect your viewpoints and love the optimism.
      "Our lives begin to end the day
      we become silent about things that matter."
      - Martin Luther King Jr

      Comment


        #4
        See my posts earlier tonight too. Momentum is building. I try to keep abreast because my best friend has a C5 Partial injury. The same wreck (in which we were passengers) gave me a traumatic brain injury. I'm taking 4-AP, so far only with good results, so I'm all for remyelination or the effect of it. Scott.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Cripply
          No reason why one cannot address all of these sequentially. Because I have always believed that good, solid, effective combos are 20-30 years away.
          Cripply,

          If you are relating this to Dr. Young's long standing definition of a cure as "a third party observer would not be able to tell you were ever SCI", then yes, I agree. 20++ years minimum.

          However, with a dirge of SCI research being applied to humans now (overseas that is), it is possible functional recovery could be observed in less than 5 years. But such recovery will leave us still severly impaired, but nonethelss, a quantum leap from only 5 years ago.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Schmeky
            Cripply,

            If you are relating this to Dr. Young's long standing definition of a cure as "a third party observer would not be able to tell you were ever SCI", then yes, I agree. 20++ years minimum.

            However, with a dirge of SCI research being applied to humans now (overseas that is), it is possible functional recovery could be observed in less than 5 years. But such recovery will leave us still severly impaired, but nonethelss, a quantum leap from only 5 years ago.
            That s what I meant. Address sequentially now, or wait 30 years for treatment. I agree with you.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Cripply
              Schmecky, re-myelination therapies have been here for a while, at the experimental stage of course. Like I have often said, many pieces of the puzzle are already here, at the experimental or inception stage.

              What happens is that SCI is a highly heterogeneous injury, and the treatment combo will have to be designed in a customized manner for every patient.

              I think it is entirely possible that an ASIA A can have lots of axons that, if remyelinated, could turn this person into an ASIA D. Conversely, we can have an ASIA C whose main problem is not remyelination. So I believe ASIA will not be a predictor of who is going to benefit.

              If I am going to chose an experimental therapy for myself, I want to have a clear MRI picture of what´s going on with the cord, as well as info derived from the physical examination. Then I would pick and choose among the numerous therapies already available.

              Brain
              Cord: gap? tethering? scar? septation? cysts? etc
              Spinal roots
              Nerves (some SCIs have accompanying peripheral nerve damage, unknown to them)
              Myelin
              Muscles
              Joints

              No reason why one cannot address all of these sequentially. Because I have always believed that good, solid, effective combos are 20-30 years away.
              I think an MRI can provide a lot of good info about gap, tethering, scar, septation, cysts, etc, however, it can't tell anything about myelination. The MRI resolution is 1 mm, the neurons/axons are ~5 microns. The only way to see if myelination will help is to try 4-a-p.

              Comment


                #8
                Is there anything that grows axons?
                A CURE NOW!

                Comment


                  #9
                  efficacy of remylination re ASIA rating

                  Hi Schmeky,

                  I had exactly the same question as you. I am an ASIA C with only a slight visible bruise on my cord at C7. I thought it was reasonably likely that I had some surviving nerves/axons that if remyelinated could result in some recovery. I tried 4HP with no apprent success. Assuming the 4AP was successful in remyelination it was not the answer for me.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I don't understand the referenced to '4HP'.

                    what is it and what does it do?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      i think he means 4-AP , put it in the CC search box , tons of info.
                      oh well

                      Comment


                        #12
                        30 years..

                        30 years for a treatment....what is the point of even chatting on the cure forum? This means that it'll be decades upon decades until results are even brought to light.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by damagedgoods
                          30 years for a treatment....what is the point of even chatting on the cure forum? This means that it'll be decades upon decades until results are even brought to light.
                          at least someone is in the holiday spirit

                          f
                          ight

                          Comment


                            #14
                            if you can use your imagination you can walk when you dream only.
                            i walked so many times when i was asleep.sweet dreams.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by damagedgoods
                              30 years for a treatment....what is the point of even chatting on the cure forum? This means that it'll be decades upon decades until results are even brought to light.
                              I agree that it is not a helpful to talk about how long it will take a therapies or a cure to arrive. How fast it comes depends on how hard we work on getting therapies into clinical trials. It is very frustrating to me to hear people come up with numbers like 30 years. How long it is going to take is how hard people work to make it happen. The conversation just goes round and round, making everybody frustrated.

                              We need to get treatments into well-run and credible clinical trials so that we know what works and what doesn't work. Because resources are very limited, it is critical that we focus the resources on developing what works. While there are a lot of therapies being tried in places like China, the quality of the work was not sufficient to be credible. We have changed that now. Doctors are doing follow-up studies, documenting the results of therapies they are trying. We have brought hundreds of scientists to China so that the doctors and scientists here are getting new ideas and incorporating them into the trials.

                              In the United States, we must get clinical trial funding. Because spinal cord injury is considered to be a small market and most companies are unwilling to invest in clinical trials in our field, we need to get the government to help. That is why getting the passage of the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Act was so important and why it was so frustrating that the bill was stopped at the last moment by some anonymous senator who objected to the possibility that the bill may fund embryonic stem cell therapies in clinical trials by the VA.

                              Dozens of therapies have been shown to regenerate and remyelinate the spinal cord. Some are better than others. We simply must take the best of them, develop them as best as we can, and then test them in clinical trials. The problem and the solution are both very straightforward. Al this complaining and talking about how long it will take does not help. The more we talk about how long it will take, the longer it will take.


                              Wise.
                              Last edited by Wise Young; 14 Dec 2006, 9:41 PM.

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