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    #31
    Originally posted by Ozymandias
    "Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torments of man." - Nietzsche
    Perhaps.

    But maybe only if man has resigned himself to torment.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Ozymandias
      "Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torments of man." - Nietzsche
      Originally posted by chick
      Perhaps.

      But maybe only if man has resigned himself to torment.
      I think that if one is truly resigned to torment then they have given up all hope, thus failure loses it's sting. If you always expect the worst, you'll never really be dissapointed.
      Last edited by Myc0; 12 Nov 2006, 5:00 AM.
      De Omnibus Dubitandum

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        #33
        Steve, reading this thread just makes me so sad. I've been a low para for the last 44 years and don't want to rain on any realistic parades but offer this:

        Mark Twain said: "Faith is believing something you know isn't true.

        The belief of so many here that a cure is "just around the corner" for everyone with sci comes across to me as whistling in the dark...when it's not spitting into the wind.

        If you can make it work for you, more power to you. For me it's a game of smoke and mirrors that I've seen through.

        As for reviving hope through global search for "improvement"; check out the journey of Tim C (Find all threads started by Tim C.) for an eyeopener of what can be encountered/expected.
        "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
        J.B.S.Haldane

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          #34
          Originally posted by Myc0
          I think that if one is truly resigned to torment then they have given up hope, thus failure loses it's sting. If you always expect the worst, you'll never really be dissapointed.
          What is that "Hope" . Is it some abstract ambiguous thing, detached from your being, or is it something one acts upon and/or utilizes to direct their lives and Self (in accordance to those hopes, dreams, desires...??

          If one gives up hope, thus never really being disappointed or "stung", then where is the torment? In giving up hope, isn't one then relieved of their torment? Maybe, it is torment, that gives rise to hope, and hope, given pulse through torment.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Juke_spin
            If you can make it work for you, more power to you. For me it's a game of smoke and mirrors that I've seen through.
            Juke, we had a debate long ago about stem cells and such. I thought your winds had changed a little 44 years is a long time and I really take my hat off to you. With much respect however, the climate has never been like it has now so the smoke and mirrors you talk of are no longer relevant today. Those who do their research will realise that it is not just 'right around the corner' but it is indeed close. I'm 23 and I doubt by my 30th birthday will be spent sitting like this Its not about 'making it work for me', its the not too far future of medicine as we know it.

            The Tim C thread is a sad affair. The experimental therapies currently being offered are total BS and should be outlawed. Those that offer them are nothing but crooks in white coats.

            Hang in there Steve.
            Last edited by Cherry; 12 Nov 2006, 1:03 PM.

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              #36
              I agree with Steve I am sad to say. I don't think there will be any cure for me. I don't know enough about what is going on in terms of a cure I suppose to really have an educated opinion. But I don't think I will see one in my future . I think I have resigned myself to living like this for the rest of my life.

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                #37
                In Vancouver, BC there is an international group of scientists working on cures. The website shows the new bldg in progress, but it is up and the lights are on inside. I pass it every day.

                http://www.icord.org/index.php

                Stem cell researchers in Canada:

                http://www.canada.com/globaltv/natio...e-bfb193fd8ed7

                And in Toronto:
                "One of the world's foremost stem cell researchers is returning to Canada to head up a new centre for regenerative medicine in Toronto, which officially opens its doors Wednesday....Despite being touted by New York Magazine earlier this year as one of six doctors the city couldn't afford to lose, Keller jumped at the chance to become founding director of the University Health Network's McEwen Centre for Regenerative Medicine.

                Among his reasons for heading north: "The opportunity to work with what I think is the best stem cell community in the world," Keller said in an interview.

                We in Canada have not been waiting for the US stem cell debate to open up research possibilities and world wide collaboration.

                Keep up the courage...

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                  #38
                  i feel you on this..especially when i just lost my bestfriend/lover..she was the reason i kept going and being happy and made me forget about my situation...........
                  JUST GLAD TO BE ALIVE

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by orangejello
                    I agree with Steve I am sad to say. I don't think there will be any cure for me. I don't know enough about what is going on in terms of a cure I suppose to really have an educated opinion. But I don't think I will see one in my future . I think I have resigned myself to living like this for the rest of my life.
                    Amanda, Why would you say this. At 25 and less than 1 year post I will eat my shorts if you don't see a cure. You have a brilliant mind hence everything I say to you may seem patronising but please don't ever resign yourself to thinking you will remain in your current situation, you really won't. Yes we need to accept things for now and move on with our lives whether it be school, work, advocating/fundraising for a cure, family etc etc, but be under no illusion - your future will incorporate a curative treatment. We all need to stay as healthy as possible.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by creeps2142
                      i feel you on this..especially when i just lost my bestfriend/lover..she was the reason i kept going and being happy and made me forget about my situation...........
                      So sorry to hear Help will come though, I am positive.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Hope

                        Hope is the thing with feathers
                        That perches in the soul,
                        And sings the tune--without the words,
                        And never stops at all,

                        And sweetest in the gale is heard;
                        And sore must be the storm
                        That could abash the little bird
                        That kept so many warm.

                        I've heard it in the chillest land,
                        And on the strangest sea;
                        Yet, never, in extremity,
                        It asked a crumb of me.

                        Emily Dickinson

                        Never give up.

                        John
                        "Hope is like a road in the country; there was never a road, but when many people walk on it, the road comes into existence." Lin Yutang

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by orangejello
                          I agree with Steve I am sad to say. I don't think there will be any cure for me. I don't know enough about what is going on in terms of a cure I suppose to really have an educated opinion. But I don't think I will see one in my future . I think I have resigned myself to living like this for the rest of my life.
                          OJ (Amanda),

                          After many years of posting and reading on this site, I have come to realize that hope is a state of the heart, not of the mind. Hope is not rational because it applies to the future and we cannot rationally predict the future from the here and now.

                          A reporter in St. Louis (I forget his name) asked me outside a lecture that I gave at St. Louis University several years ago, whether I was giving false hope to people with spinal cord injury. I don't know what prompted me to say it but perhaps it was from conversations that I had with Christopher Reeve, I blurted out, "No hope is devastating". No hope is not only devastating but false.

                          There is real hope, false hope, false despair, and scams. Let me try to describe each of these.
                          1. Real hope. There are many reasons for hope. We know that the spinal cord can regenerate. We did not know this for many years but I can assure you that it is true. I have seen it with my own eyes in animals. I think that regeneration occurs to some extent in people but of course not sufficiently and we must have therapies to ensure that it occurs in everybody. By the way, I want to point out that, before 1995, I was skeptical that the spinal cord could regenerate. Many studies have now shown that there are three major obstacles to regeneration: an inhospitable environment at the injury site, lack of sustained growth factor support, and axonal growth inhibitors in the spinal cord. Bridging the injury site with cells, delivery of growth factor cocktails, and blockade of growth inhibitors have stimulated some regeneration in the spinal cord. Several studies indicate that combination therapies are more effective than any of the individual therapies. What we need to do now is to deliver the therapies that help the axons overcome all the obstacles. Delivering combination therapies to chronic spinal cord injury is not a trivial task, even in animal studies. To do this in humans will require a herculean effort. However, it is no more difficult than flying to the Moon and getting back. We know what the obstacles are, i.e. pulling free of the gravitation pull of the earth, landing on the moon, taking off and coming back, and landing back on the earth. When John F. Kennedy decided to make getting to the moon a national priority, it was just a gleam in his eyes and hope in his heart. He of course did not live to see his dream come true, just like Christopher Reeve did not live to see his dream come true. But, it is doable and worthwhile doing. That is what real hope is, not only for yourself but for all others.
                          2. False hope. To be sure, there is false hope. These occur in the form of people touting various therapies as potential cures, based on little or no data. Almost every day, we see posted news articles that proclaim hope for people with some disease. When you read the fine print, it is clear that the work has not yet come to fruition, that it may be many years before it will be actually applied to people. It is hard to blame the scientists and reporters who proclaim the hope. Perhaps they truly believe that what they have discovered and are reporting will be curative. On the other hand, we are all grown up and understand that not everything is true or will come true. Part of the purpose of this site is to allow people to distinguish between hype and hope.
                          3. False despair. Do you really want the naysayers to win? People like Senator Bill Frist and even people in wheelchairs such as Charles Krauthammer attacked John Kerry for saying that he was committed to research to allow people like Christopher Reeve to get out of their wheelchairs. They cried, "False Hope!". Are they not giving "false despair" to people with spinal cord injury? What is worse, "False Hope" or "False Despair"? While I can understand the sentiment that one might feel now, that the cure may not arrive in time to help people now, is it reason to say that a cure is impossible? Impossible is only true when we give up. For the marathon runner who hits the "wall" on the 20th mile, the despair is real but simply an illusion. Marathon runners fail for the lack of hope. Hope is a state of the heart and not a state of the mind.
                          4. Scams. There will be some who will take advantage of your hope and despair, for fame or fortune. I was aghast last year when I met Woo-suk Hwang with several people in wheelchairs and witnessed him telling them that he will cure them, when he knew that his data was faked. There are many clinics around the world that offer the "cure" for $20,000 (sort of the going price). Please don't fall for it. When the "cure" happens, it will be very different. It will not happen in some out-of-the-way clinic with a therapy that they will hold back from others. The problem of regeneration is too difficult to be solved by merely plugging in some magic cells or anonymous growth factor cocktail. Don't be fooled. Stem cells are not magic cells. Cure is not a lottery or a stroll through a casino.


                          Real hope is not painful. It is simply determination to succeed, the knowledge in one's heart that one must succeed.

                          Wise.
                          Last edited by Wise Young; 12 Nov 2006, 3:51 PM.

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                            #43
                            On Nov 18, 1995, Izhak Perlman, the violinist, came on stage to give a concert in Avery Fisher Hall in Lincoln Center, NYC. If you have ever been to a Perlman concert, you will know that getting on stage is no small achievement for him. He was stricken with polio as a child and so he has braces on both legs and walks with the aid of two crutches. To see him walk across the stage, one step at at time, painfully and slowly is an unforgettable sight. He walks painfully but majestically until he reaches his chair. Then he sits down, slowly, puts his crutches on the floor, undoes the clasps on his leg braces, tucks one foot back and extends the other forward. Then he bends down and picks up the violin and puts it under his chin, nods with a slight smile to the conductor and proceeds to play.By now the audience is used to this ritual. They sit quietly while he makes his way across the stage. They remain reverently silent while he undoes the clasps on his legs, They wait until he is ready to play.

                            But this time, something went wrong. Just as he had finished the first few bars, one of the strings on his violin broke.You could hear it snap - it sounded like gunfire in the auditorium. There was no mistaking what he had to do. People who were there that night thought to themselves: "We figured that he had to get up, put on the clasps again, pick up the crutches, and slowly, painfully, walk off stage to find another violin and walk back again."

                            But he didn't. Instead he waited a moment, closed his eyes and then signalled for the conductor to begin again. The orchestra began, and he played where he had left off. And he played with such passion and power and purity as they had never heard before. Of course, everyone knows that it is impossible to play a violin concerto with three strings. I know that, and you know that, but that night Itzak Perlman refused to know that. You could see him modulating, changing, and recomposing the fingering in his head. At one point, it sounded like he was de-tuning the strings to get new sounds from them that they had never made before.

                            When he had finished, there was an awesome silence in the auditorium. And then people rose and cheered. There was an extraordinary outburst from the entire audience. We were all on our feet, screaming and cheering, doing everything we could to let him know how much we appreciated what he had done.

                            He smiled, wiped the sweat from his brow, raised his bow to quiet us and said, not in a boastful way, but in a quiet pensive manner, "You know, sometimes it is the artist`s task to find out just how much music one can make with what one has left."
                            Last edited by diane2; 14 Nov 2006, 1:48 PM.

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                              #44
                              ((A wonderful story, thanks diane2)).
                              Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

                              T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

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                                #45
                                Dr. Young

                                Thank you so much for your kindness and patience.

                                When hope wanes, you are always there to bring it back to the light.

                                You are one-of-a-kind. I truly appreciate everything you do, and how you take time to try and keep us all motivated and optimistic.

                                Thank you Diane2 for your story.........and John for that lovely poem.

                                I needed that!

                                Shelley
                                Last edited by shelley; 12 Nov 2006, 10:16 PM.

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