A Moscow's Hoax? - be carefull - My own reflections!

[Cripply]

show me their results ok? I think that this post is to difficult for you to understand. I suggest you to read carefully this post again, read my story from Moscow and then you can see come correlations. Maybe.....

I would like to ask you again. Show me their RESULTS on the video. I don't want to see a patient after treatment, I want to see the patients before and during their next visit here.

You write a nonsense reply.

While I agree that your post is difficult to understand, based on the verbosity and the illogical threading of thoughts, I have nevertheless understood it very well. You are disappointed with your results at Neurovita and have taken it upon yourself to discredit their reputation based on some nonsensical thoughts.

I have no doubt that future efficacious treatments for SCI will most closely resemble the Neurovita treatment: a matrix embedded with a cocktail implanted into the spinal cord.

I have carefully researched all available experimental therapies and I have no doubt that, at present, Neurovita offers the best option for chronics.

[Leif]

I just came over this article, from today;

Injured man sees new hope in Russia

He was left paralyzed in a 2003 accident; now, a treatment holds promise.

<sci>

Krolikowski said he and his wife discovered the Russian clinic on the Internet as they did research on treatment options. NeuroVita's doctors gave him an 80 percent chance of regaining the use of his arms and hands after they reviewed laboratory results from his American doctors, he said.

Full story here; source.

[oxygen]

While I agree that your post is difficult to understand, based on the verbosity and the illogical threading of thoughts, I have nevertheless understood it very well. You are disappointed with your results at Neurovita and have taken it upon yourself to discredit their reputation based on some nonsensical thoughts.

I have no doubt that future efficacious treatments for SCI will most closely resemble the Neurovita treatment: a matrix embedded with a cocktail implanted into the spinal cord.

I have carefully researched all available experimental therapies and I have no doubt that, at present, Neurovita offers the best option for chronics.

I ask you once again. Show me their results. I have been there 5 times and I know what is going on there. Its very sad that patients after treatment over there do not present their results. Why?

Why they do not present their methods in medical magazines as Leif said some time ago?

Why they do not check their patients every visit there?

Why they do not compare the results during every visit?

Why they do not make SIMPLE neurogical test?

Why the do not check nerves and muscles reflexes?

Why they do not check every visit the skin sensation?

Why the doctor do not make a interview with the patient every visit?

I have been in France last week in Laserpuncture clinic and they do everything above. When I go there next time they will compare the progress.
Is this logical for you?

Can you tell me why they do not make very simple tests?
Are they afraid of something? Or maybe they are so sure about their results and they do not have to make it?

If you answer to my questions with logical explenation I will stop critisize them. ok?

[IanTPoulter]

have carefully researched all available experimental therapies and I have no doubt that, at present, Neurovita offers the best option for chronics.

Cripply, I dont understand what you are basing this view on. Nuerovita as Oxygen has stated has no treatments resulting in cures, partial or otherwise and it also appears they are not following standard medical practice and properly evaluating their patients. If oxygen is correct they are also it seems misleading their patients, this should put up a gigantic red flag for anyone considering going there.
Based on results the best option for chronic injuries is intensive physical rehab.

[In the wind]

Oxygen,
An excellent example of the critical eye we should all take when it comes to these types of clinics and or devices. I’m still stunned at the 15K they want for the RTI fes bike.

I’m glad you are in a position to at least attempt these therapies. Good Luck in France!

W

[Cripply]

Cripply, I dont understand what you are basing this view on. Nuerovita as Oxygen has stated has no treatments resulting in cures, partial or otherwise and it also appears they are not following standard medical practice and properly evaluating their patients. If oxygen is correct they are also it seems misleading their patients, this should put up a gigantic red flag for anyone considering going there.
Based on results the best option for chronic injuries is intensive physical rehab.

What training does Oxygen have to determine if examinations are adequate or not?
Neurovita has published, in Russian.
Also a short, admittedly unsatisfactory short report in English, 2005.
What hard data or numbers does Oxygen have? The Russians have few, but Oxygen has none.
The Russians know more than we assume. Sadly, the isolation of the communist years still permeates the way they delay dissemination of knowledge.
I hope everyone considering experimental treatment will assess all of the options, independently and with an open mind.
Oxygen refused rehab. He was what we call a noncompliant patient. How do we know he did not refuse tests as well?
Finally, Oxygen posted in these forums about his improvements at Neurovita. Either he was lying then, or he is lying now.

[bschiner]

I live close to John Hopkins in Baltimore and went there for therapy last winter. I was able to spend some time with Dr. McDonald discussing stem cell treatments. The bottom line is stem cell treatments have not been perfected yet., Think about it, if there was a treatment out there, whoever discovered it would have people examined and videotaped by Doctors not associated with the procedure before and after the procedure to proce it works. At this time there are probally some Doctors like Kao and this one in Moscow who have figured out a get rich quick scheme and other doctors who are using patients willing to pay the money and take the risk to try to perfect a cure. I truly want to try a stem cell procedure and work hard to keep my body fit, but decided 2 years ago to wait until 2008,evaluate my options and than start arranging to get the treatment. Why 2008? That will be 7 years of being paralyzed and I think if I wait any longer my hips, bones, tendons,etc. will not be able to take walking and the pain will be too great. I started as a C4/5 and went thru hyperbaric therapy and got to a c7 incomplete and a T4 complete and it was extremly painful regaining feeling

[oxygen]

Ypu can also impair that I have never been there . You have not answered to my basic question. Where are all these patients with such a great progress? Where are the videos with them? You are trying to stultify me but you cant answer to my questions. Why do you advocate them so strong? Have you ever been there? Maybe you can share with us your experience about them. Maybe we have never seen their real results as you saw.

[Leif]

Cripply. Are you a MD or a Russian agent?

[IanTPoulter]

What training does Oxygen have to determine if examinations are adequate or not?
Neurovita has published, in Russian.
Also a short, admittedly unsatisfactory short report in English, 2005.
What hard data or numbers does Oxygen have? The Russians have few, but Oxygen has none.
The Russians know more than we assume. Sadly, the isolation of the communist years still permeates the way they delay dissemination of knowledge.
I hope everyone considering experimental treatment will assess all of the options, independently and with an open mind.
Oxygen refused rehab. He was what we call a noncompliant patient. How do we know he did not refuse tests as well?
Finally, Oxygen posted in these forums about his improvements at Neurovita. Either he was lying then, or he is lying now.

The fact remains neurovita are not assessing their patients appropriately before or after the treatment and there are as yet no proven cases of significant functional return due to these treatments. Having an open mind does not mean accepting claims without actual evidence.
I am sure Oxygen wanted very badly to improve from these treatments and obviously that affected some of his posts, but at the end he has analysed his experience examined the outcome and posted the results and his opinion which should be accepted. I recently watched a documentary about patients travelling to China for stem cell treatment by Dr Huang, they all wanted to believe through the process that improvements were happening but at the end of the day none achieved any improvement other than would be expected due to the physical rehab provided. I believe that is exactly what is happening here, hope can be a very powerful emotion but it needs to be tempered with clinical observation.
There is currently no one offering any stem cell treatment which has been proved to provide any cure partial or otherwise. I dont think people such as Oxygen who travel to these places in the hope of effective treatment should be accused of lying, they are providing very valuable information to the rest of us.

[1966stoneguy]

Cripply. Are you a MD or a Russian agent?

KGB...FOR SURE.

[oxygen]

The fact remains neurovita are not assessing their patients appropriately before or after the treatment and there are as yet no proven cases of significant functional return due to these treatments. Having an open mind does not mean accepting claims without actual evidence.
I am sure Oxygen wanted very badly to improve from these treatments and obviously that affected some of his posts, but at the end he has analysed his experience examined the outcome and posted the results and his opinion which should be accepted. I recently watched a documentary about patients travelling to China for stem cell treatment by Dr Huang, they all wanted to believe through the process that improvements were happening but at the end of the day none achieved any improvement other than would be expected due to the physical rehab provided. I believe that is exactly what is happening here, hope can be a very powerful emotion but it needs to be tempered with clinical observation.
There is currently no one offering any stem cell treatment which has been proved to provide any cure partial or otherwise. I dont think people such as Oxygen who travel to these places in the hope of effective treatment should be accused of lying, they are providing very valuable information to the rest of us.

This is exactly what I mean. I will post something interesting today.

[Cripply]

I am an MD
I am not a Russian agent
Hope I have clarified

ETA: I am not an advocate of Neurovita or any other experimental treatment. I am merely pointing out discrepancies in Oxygen´s posts.

[soimumireland]

Can you tell me about your hyperbaric therapy

I started as a C4/5 and went thru hyperbaric therapy and got to a c7 incomplete and a T4 complete and it was extremly painful regaining feeling

I couldn't pm or email you to ask this question so could you give me some information on the number of hyperbaric sessions you had and your return. My son has had 10 sessions and he appears to have alot of sensory return to S3.

The only direction I have had from the centre is that you should not let 4 days go between sessions or you lose the benefits of ones you have already done.

[oxygen]

I am an MD
I am not a Russian agent
Hope I have clarified

ETA: I am not an advocate of Neurovita or any other experimental treatment. I am merely pointing out discrepancies in Oxygen´s posts.

You have not answered to my questions Criply. Are they to difficult for you?
You say that you are not their advocate. But you defend them without any strong facts.