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  • Dr. Young, the power of our mind.

    Dr. Young, when I was in the emergency room 24 years ago and learned that I'll be paralyzed for the rest of my life a doctor, cardiologist, came to my room and said to me that I have the power to cure my self If I use the power of my mind. He said that he can make me get up and walk but the doctors here will think he is crazy if they hear him talk like this. He told me to learn my self to help my brain to find way to reconnect the nerves. I never learn how to do that. After 15 years of my accident, I was watching Larry King's show and I am 100 percent that his guest was the same doctor who told me about that 15 years ago. He was talking again about the power we have and we don't know how to use it to heal ourselves of everything. I would like to know what's your opinion regarding this, I know positive thinking will help you to deal with hard times, and I've seen on TV, in china, monks without clothes standing outside all night when the weather was bellow zero, freezing, and for them it was like a summer time using their mind's power.Do you see any evidence that, in your experience, tells you is something there. I remember when my father was alive telling me many times that I don't try hard to get up and walk, of cause my father had no education but did believe the power of mind. Thank you always for your time,manouli.
    Last edited by manouli; 04-23-2006, 12:47 PM.

  • #2
    Why is that so hard to believe about the chinese monks standing in the freezing cold and feeling summer. It happens here too, with the hype and feel good moments about the cure. BTW, they might feel warm, but, I wonder if they still got frostbite. Dream on!!!


    Originally posted by manouli
    Dr. Young, when I was in the emergency room 24 years ago and learned that I'll be paralyzed for the rest of my life a doctor, cardiologist, came to my room and said to me that I have the power to cure my self If I use the power of my mind. He said that he can make me get up and walk but the doctors here will think he is crazy if they hear him talk like this. He told me to learn my self to help my brain to find way to reconnect the nerves. I never learn how to do that. After 15 years of my accident, I was watching Larry King's show and I am 100 percent that his guest was the same doctor who told me about that 15 years ago. He was talking again about the power we have and we don't know how to use it to heal ourselves of everything. I would like to know what's your opinion regarding this, I know positive thinking will help you to deal with hard times, and I've seen on TV, in china, monks without clothes standing outside all night when the weather was bellow zero, freezing, and for them it was like a summer time using their mind's power.Do you see any evidence that, in your experience, tells you is something there. I remember when my father was alive telling me many times that I don't try hard to get up and walk, of cause my father had no education but did believe the power of mind. Thank you always for your time,manouli.

    Comment


    • #3
      It would be nice in theory. I do believe if anyone has enough remaining spinal cord to walk again then only the most positive people make the best of it.

      Take Cory (Mr Coffee) as an example. His injury clearly allowed for more recovery than mine - he had no movement for months but since his toe moved he hasn't looked back, his energy and drive has helped him. He's walking. Not everyone presented with that slim opportunity would have had the belief to follow it through.

      I've got it. I sit (and sit) and try to use every ounce of willpower and strength simply to wiggle a toe or move my fingers. Not worked yet
      C5/6 incomplete

      "I assume you all have guns and crack....."

      Comment


      • #4
        It really sucked to see my brother try so hard to walk after TM. It almost made him feel that if he didn't walk it was his fault. Believe me, if he had gains he would have not given up. It is not just will power.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with Rhino: it would be nice in theory.

          Comment


          • #6
            Rosh, do you mind me asking what your level of injury is? and why your replies are even less than one liners? I all ready apologize if you have trouble typing, but yet curious enough to ask.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've tried all forms of though, acupuncture and eating healthy and working out. If you damage the cord good it doesn't matter what you think in your mind it's not going to cure it. I haven't gained anything back and it's been 2 years. My catscan did show a bone fragment in my cord 60%. So i might of severed my cord.

              And God isn't going to appear out of the clouds and cure me if i decide to believe in him more or less. So silly. If you've been paralyzed for 2 years being a complete with no recovery. I'ts my knowledge that NOBODY has had a full recovery down the road with the initial 2 years of no recovery.

              Comment


              • #8
                Manuouli,

                I didn't want to give an off-the-cuff answer. It is a very insightful question. The mind does have tremendous influence on what the body does but more often in the negative direction. When I was in training as a doctor in the 1970's, the dogma then was that nobody recovered from spinal cord injury.

                When there was a case that a person recovered from spinal cord injury, the doctors (and everybody else) would said that the person was suffering from "spinal shock" and that it had just worn off. It is incredible how we can make up explanations to explain observations that do not fit the dogma. Of course, we now know that a majority of people do recover substantially from incomplete spinal cord injury but disciplined exercise helps accelerate that recovery. But, it took over 30 years to show that this is the case and many people who asked, "why did that person recover?" were scoffed at.

                For decades, and even now, many doctors (and people with spinal cord injury) believe that nobody could recover from so-called "complete" spinal cord injury. But, there are occasional examples of people who have recovered some function from a so-called "complete" spinal cord injury, especially after methylprednisolone treatment. While there is no question that such people do not recover as much as people with "incomplete" spinal cord injury, there are some that do so. A majority of people with so-called "complete" spinal cord injury recovered some function, sometimes many segments below the injury level. Of course, it is not enough. But, clearly, the dogma of no recovery is wrong.

                I still remember my colleagues getting really upset when I presented a case of a patient who was "complete" but recovered some function. They would angrily tell me that I did not examine the patient properly. It was a deliberate blind spot and we, as doctors, were strongly pressured by our peers to ignore such cases and even to question our own observations. People like Christopher Reeve are actually much more common than we think. Christopher was about as "complete" a spinal cord injury as anybody that I knew. He had been examined by dozens of doctors. It is possible that none of them examined him very carefully. However, around 2 years after injury, he discovered that he could feel his son touching his hand. And, he was so sensitive down below that he needed lidocaine cream for his bowel procedure. He recovered nearly normal touch and pinprick sensation over 3/4 of his body. He also got some finger movement back and a little leg movement.

                According to the dogma, what happened to Christopher breaks all the rules. Therefore, when John McDonald wrote about his recovery, it was presented as an exception. Some people attributed it to his disciplined exercise program. Others thought it was from his "indomitable spirit". In my opinion, it was at least in part due to the fact that Christopher kept an open mind concerning his own recovery. He did not deny the possibility of recovery and he kept his hope alive. As I pointed out many times, his recovery is not enough and research is necessary to find ways to improve the recovery.

                To be sure, mental attitude is very important. If you believe that nothing will happen and go into a state of denial, it is likely that nothing will happen. Worse, when you are told by a doctor in a position of authority that nothing will happen and, when you tell that doctor that something has happened and the doctor told you that it is in your imagination or that it is just a "spasm", you deny that it has happened. Every runner knows what it feels like when they hit the "wall" and they become convinced that they can't keep going. Those who believe stop. But, for those who keep running, the wall often evaporates.

                I believe that the doctor that you talked to and perhaps saw on Larry King is wrong. Spinal cord injury is real. It causes real paralysis, sensory loss, pain, and spasticity. It cannot be overcome just by the power of the mind. In the same way, I believe that people who say that exercise alone is sufficient to restore function are wrong. In my opinion, hope and exercise are necessary not sufficient for recovery for many people.

                Common sense tells us that if we lose hope and don't try to recover, recovery is not likely to happen. In fact, I think that it is one reason why less than 50% of people who had "incomplete" spinal cord injury did not recover walking but now the data suggests that 90% of people with "incomplete" spinal cord injury can recover. In my opinion, it is as just as hurtful when ignorant doctors tell patients that they will recover if they try hard enough, as when they told them that they would not recover, implying that it is the patient's fault that they do not recover.

                I started doing spinal cord injury research in the 1970's because I did not believe the dogma that there was nothing that could be done after the spinal cord injury occurred. In the same way, in 1991, I decided to start working on chronic spinal cord injury because I do not believe that dogma that regeneration and recovery cannot recover in chronic spinal cord injury. The more I work in this field, the more I am convinced that the dogma is wrong. A large majority of scientists believe this. Thankfully, more and more doctors believe this as well. In the end, I believe that truth will prevail. What is frustrating is how long it is taking. In 1996, I concluded that we must push for clinical trials and the spinal cord injury community must become part of the effort, hence this web site.

                So, in summary, you are right. I don't agree with this doctor, that the power of the mind alone is sufficient. On the other hand, I believe that hope and motivation to work on recovery is necessary for recovery. By the way, I am not banking on the hope that there will be a magic pill that one can take, or a magic wand, that would restore function to people without work, although I have to say that it would be great, if that would happen. In the meantime, we all have to work hard, myself included.

                Wise.

                Originally posted by manouli
                Dr. Young, when I was in the emergency room 24 years ago and learned that I'll be paralyzed for the rest of my life a doctor, cardiologist, came to my room and said to me that I have the power to cure my self If I use the power of my mind. He said that he can make me get up and walk but the doctors here will think he is crazy if they hear him talk like this. He told me to learn my self to help my brain to find way to reconnect the nerves. I never learn how to do that. After 15 years of my accident, I was watching Larry King's show and I am 100 percent that his guest was the same doctor who told me about that 15 years ago. He was talking again about the power we have and we don't know how to use it to heal ourselves of everything. I would like to know what's your opinion regarding this, I know positive thinking will help you to deal with hard times, and I've seen on TV, in china, monks without clothes standing outside all night when the weather was bellow zero, freezing, and for them it was like a summer time using their mind's power.Do you see any evidence that, in your experience, tells you is something there. I remember when my father was alive telling me many times that I don't try hard to get up and walk, of cause my father had no education but did believe the power of mind. Thank you always for your time,manouli.
                Last edited by Wise Young; 04-23-2006, 06:59 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dr. Young, you are always have a well balance answers, you are great! You always live the door open no matter the level of the question. I thank you for that. Guys, I agree with you, but I thought that If some people believe like this maybe we do have the power and we have not discover it yet. like you are saying I am dreaming. Maybe after thousand of years humans will be able to develope this kind of power, who knows nothing impossible. be well, manouli.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Manouli, there is also a lot of evidence to suggest that meditation and relaxation practise lowers the level of substances and hormones in the body that are counter productive to recovery and raises levels of naturally occurring body substances that assist recovery after injury. Some I believe are neuro protective. It is also well documented that individuals who have disruptive sleep patterns and miss out on deep sleep which is when the brain goes into a low cycle theta or delta state are much more prone to disease and illness. Meditation can help the brain to attain the delta or theta cycle.
                    Although this doesnt pertain specifically to sci I thought this is a worth while comment to make considering the research currently being done with naturally occurring nerve growth factors and inhibitors.
                    regards
                    Last edited by IanTPoulter; 04-24-2006, 01:47 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Can I pose a quick question... In case such as Christopher Reeve, when he recovered some sensation, does he then become classified as an incomplete? Once a complete has some sensation is he then categorized an incomplete and thus the recovery rates etc. apply to the complete who has suddenly regained sensation??

                      Sorry, you may have to read this 2 times to get what I am saying....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        incomplete

                        You are incomplete if you can fill a pin prick at the base of the spine. That means you are getting transmission through the entire cord. However, many incomplete patients do not recover walking ability, and conversely completes can become incomplete and later walk. So don't be depressed by a label.



                        JJG
                        Jake's Pop

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChopperChick
                          Can I pose a quick question... In case such as Christopher Reeve, when he recovered some sensation, does he then become classified as an incomplete? Once a complete has some sensation is he then categorized an incomplete and thus the recovery rates etc. apply to the complete who has suddenly regained sensation??

                          Sorry, you may have to read this 2 times to get what I am saying....
                          Christopher not only recovered some sensation. He recovered sensation around his anus, the lowest segmental level of his spinal cord. This made him an incomplete injury. Because he had recoverd some motor function belolw the injury site, he is really an ASIA C.

                          The ASIA definition of "complete" injury is the presence of some level below which there is no motor or sensory function. Since the S4/5 segment is the lowest level, the absence of anal sensation and voluntary sphincter contraction became the definition of "complete" spinal cord injury, because it meant that you have a level below which you have no motor or sensory function.

                          Wise.
                          Last edited by Wise Young; 04-24-2006, 06:16 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wise Young
                            Christopher not only recovered some sensation. He recovered sensation around his anus, the lowest segmental level of his spinal cord. This made him an incomplete injury. Because he has some

                            The ASIA definition of "complete" injury is the presence of some level below which there is no motor or sensory function. Since the S4/5 segment is the lowest level, the absence of anal sensation and voluntary sphincter contraction became the definition of "complete" spinal cord injury, because it meant that you have a level below which you have no motor or sensory function.

                            Wise.
                            Then incomplete is really a somewhat meaningless term. True, it must mean that there is still some kind of a fragile connection still existing, but in terms of function it really can be misleading.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wise Young
                              Christopher not only recovered some sensation. He recovered sensation around his anus, the lowest segmental level of his spinal cord. This made him an incomplete injury. Because he had recoverd some motor function belolw the injury site, he is really an ASIA C.

                              The ASIA definition of "complete" injury is the presence of some level below which there is no motor or sensory function. Since the S4/5 segment is the lowest level, the absence of anal sensation and voluntary sphincter contraction became the definition of "complete" spinal cord injury, because it meant that you have a level below which you have no motor or sensory function.

                              Wise.
                              Actually, the definition works. It is quite a reliable predictive of recovery.

                              Wise.

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