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  • Dr. Wise Young speaks.

    Dr. Wise Young speaks.

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    "We must overcome difficulties rather than being overcome by difficulties."

  • #2
    What does the "most intensive walking training program ever" encompass? Besides "six hours a day, six days a week, for six months"?
    Know Thyself

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Rick1 View Post
      What does the "most intensive walking training program ever" encompass? Besides "six hours a day, six days a week, for six months"?
      Good luck trying to get a real answer to that
      First off, these are complete injuries so ( especially early on) the people will need to be 'walked' by multiple therapists / assistants. 6 hours a day of that every day? I have my doubts...

      I'm fortunate enough to be able to ambulate. I've been pushing myself incredibly hard for 6 months. I started at .4 mph and now I'm up to 1.3mph. On a treadmill obviously.
      30 minutes and I'm completely spent for the next 4 hours
      If I'm feeling fantastic I can do another 30 minutes at night...

      The idea of building that up to 6 hours a day is about as likely as growing wings and flying. Ha.

      Oh and another thing... considering people that did not do intensive therapy had no significant results, did the stem cells really do anything? Hmmm

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      • #4
        I'm ASIA A, T3 Complete and "walk" with one therapist and a walker. Just need the right therapist. I've had to curtail my PT owing to work, but I still do an hour a week and I still make gains. How much are recovery vs. using what I've got better is an unknown, but I can usually advance my legs now (hip flexors) and my stance phase sometimes doesn't require a knee block. Would be interesting to try the super intense thing, but hard to keep a job.
        T3 complete since Sept 2015.

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        • #5
          I hope everyone knows that simply growing axons and connecting them to the lower spine won't mean recovery without literally learning to everything all over again as though you were a newborn. The neurons aren't going to attach to the same lower spine neurons they were attached to previously. That means all new signals for the brain to map and understand. Indeed, if "cure" ever comes it will necessarily involve intense training to map the new nerve pathways.
          T3 complete since Sept 2015.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mize View Post
            I'm ASIA A, T3 Complete and "walk" with one therapist and a walker. Just need the right therapist. I've had to curtail my PT owing to work, but I still do an hour a week and I still make gains. How much are recovery vs. using what I've got better is an unknown, but I can usually advance my legs now (hip flexors) and my stance phase sometimes doesn't require a knee block. Would be interesting to try the super intense thing, but hard to keep a job.
            I know we disagree on a lot but I admire your ability to try keep it up I can zombie walk in full braces for a good bit but it take 1 to be side me and 1 following with chair but dang feels good c6c7

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mize View Post
              I'm ASIA A, T3 Complete and "walk" with one therapist and a walker. Just need the right therapist. I've had to curtail my PT owing to work, but I still do an hour a week and I still make gains. How much are recovery vs. using what I've got better is an unknown, but I can usually advance my legs now (hip flexors) and my stance phase sometimes doesn't require a knee block. Would be interesting to try the super intense thing, but hard to keep a job.
              How do you use your hip flexors and lock your knees with an asia A complete injury?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Rick1 View Post
                What does the "most intensive walking training program ever" encompass? Besides "six hours a day, six days a week, for six months"?
                six hours @ + or - $80 per hour = $480 a day, X six days = $2880 a week = $11,520 per month, for six months = $69,120
                alas I am a man of limited means

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                • #9
                  I'd like to think that if this proves to be successful then its going to be easy in comparison for people to experiment on alternative rehab strategies.
                  The intervention is going to be the bit that is hard to get to market, after that physios around the world can play at different rehab strategies with no need for long drawn out approvals.

                  What would be interesting to me is if something like an exoskeleton that assists, rather than does everything would work. Things like keeogo or cyberdyne.

                  It will have to happen, its not just the cost, in fact it's probably more the resource issue of trying to find 3 people for every patient. There is already a shortage of medical staff in most countries.

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                  • #10
                    One measure of success should be a reduction in need for assistive personnel and devices...
                    Know Thyself

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Galloway View Post
                      six hours @ + or - $80 per hour = $480 a day, X six days = $2880 a week = $11,520 per month, for six months = $69,120
                      alas I am a man of limited means
                      Well in theory if you are part of the trial, the therapy you should come along with it.

                      And if you are not part of the trial, at the rate things seem to be progressing, it won't be available for the next 20 or more years anyway

                      Sorry not usually so pessimistic. I've only been hurt 3 years and I was fortunate to get decent return. I could not imagine the frustration of people with injuries 15 or 20 years ago constantly hoping something would be available in the next '5 years'...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rick1 View Post
                        What does the "most intensive walking training program ever" encompass? Besides "six hours a day, six days a week, for six months"?
                        After the surgery and three days in hospital, patient will go home and recover for 2 weeks. Stitches will be removed and they will be cleared for therapy. Therapy begins at week 3, for six weeks at an outpatient rehab center. The goal of the next two weeks is to build up to standing in a standing frame for 5 hours a day. (Outpatient therapy will be 5 hours a day for 5 weeks. It's just not possible for rehab centers to do 6 hours a day, 6 days a week.) After 2 weeks of standing, the goal at the end of the next 4 weeks, is stepping, using an upper-body supporting rolling walker.

                        After the 6 weeks of outpatient, patient will then attend Push To WalkNJ/Project WalkNJ/ or one of the other places for 4 months. The goal is to eventually work up to walking 5 days a week, 5 hours a day. That's why the walking program is 6 months. It takes a long time to get there.



                        Originally posted by Mitchitsu View Post
                        Well in theory if you are part of the trial, the therapy you should come along with it.

                        And if you are not part of the trial, at the rate things seem to be progressing, it won't be available for the next 20 or more years anyway
                        After the patients in the trial are operated on, the therapy will be available for compassionate use.
                        Last edited by Jim; 09-06-2019, 09:32 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rick1 View Post
                          One measure of success should be a reduction in need for assistive personnel and devices...
                          Wouldn't that mean expecting the stem cells to do everything?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jim View Post
                            After the patients in the trial are operated on, the therapy will be available for compassionate use.
                            Is there a waiting list started for this? I imagine there will be a big queue of people wanting to do it.

                            Maybe you should start taking deposits, I'd sign up.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jim View Post
                              After the surgery and three days in hospital, patient will go home and recover for 2 weeks. Stitches will be removed and they will be cleared for therapy. Therapy begins at week 3, for six weeks at an outpatient rehab center. The goal of the next two weeks is to build up to standing in a standing frame for 5 hours a day. (Outpatient therapy will be 5 hours a day for 5 weeks. It's just not possible for rehab centers to do 6 hours a day, 6 days a week.) After 2 weeks of standing, the goal at the end of the next 4 weeks, is stepping, using an upper-body supporting rolling walker.

                              After the 6 weeks of outpatient, patient will then attend Push To WalkNJ/Project WalkNJ/ or one of the other places for 4 months. The goal is to eventually work up to walking 5 days a week, 5 hours a day. That's why the walking program is 6 months. It takes a long time to get there.





                              After the patients in the trial are operated on, the therapy will be available for compassionate use.a
                              Why would someone need compassionate use for therapy?
                              If you have the resources to pay project walk $3,000/week I'm sure they would be more than happy to take your money for 5 hours a day of training right now.

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