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Not a cure but dam would this improve quads lives

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    Not a cure but dam would this improve quads lives

    13 quads had hand movement restored with nerve transfers. Sounds like triceps also.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...aralysed-hands

    #2
    hmmmm, what's afoot here?
    a hand?

    Comment


      #3
      There is so much missing from the report in this study that is very necessary information...
      1. How many years post injury?
      2. Were the participants in the study complete or incomplete?
      3. I'm a complete injury at C6/7 and can extend my forearm from my elbow...how would I get more hand function? I pushed a manual wheelchair for years until my shoulders gave out and Atrial Fibrillation curtailed my cardio function.
      4. In the case study, Paul isn't too specific about his improvement. I've been able to use tenodesis grasp to pick up a full 12 ounce can of a drink almost from the beginning 38 years ago. Paul seemed to report that he wasn't be able to do that just a couple of years post injury.
      5. Being able to break down his wheelchair and transfer himself and the chair into a car is admirable and an accomplishment, but what does that really mean, and what will happen to his shoulders long term?
      6. Many quads at C6/7 can and do live independently...
      7. I can extend my hand to shake hands, but I don't have a grasp. Does Paul in the case study have grasp?
      8. Can the individual (Paul in this case study) manipulate and take apart small parts. Can he type on a keyboard or smart phone key pad without some type of aid/stylus?
      9. The injury that all quads suffer is enervation in the spinal cord, not in the shoulder, where it seems this nerve transfer happens. See the diagram in the article sited above. If the enervation doesn't happen from the spinal cord, how is the nerve transplant going to get it's "electrical" signals?
      10. What kind of pain occurred after the transplant?

      So...what is really accomplished...why and how?

      I'm quite skeptical on every aspect of this surgery and the reports of success.
      Last edited by gjnl; 6 Jul 2019, 11:39 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by gjnl View Post
        There is so much missing from the report in this study that is very necessary information...
        1. How many years post injury?
        2. Were the participants in the study complete or incomplete?
        3. I'm a complete injury at C6/7 and can extend my forearm from my elbow...how would I get more hand function? I pushed a manual wheelchair for years until my shoulders gave out and Atrial Fibrillation curtailed my cardio function.
        4. In the case study, Paul isn't too specific about his improvement. I've been able to use tenodesis grasp to pick up a full 12 ounce can of a drink almost from the beginning 38 years ago. Paul seemed to report that he wasn't be able to do that just a couple of years post injury.
        5. Being able to break down his wheelchair and transfer himself and the chair into a car is admirable and an accomplishment, but what does that really mean, and what will happen to his shoulders long term?
        6. Many quads at C6/7 can and do live independently...
        7. I can extend my hand to shake hands, but I don't have a grasp. Does Paul in the case study have grasp?
        8. Can the individual (Paul in this case study) manipulate and take apart small parts. Can he type on a keyboard or smart phone key pad without some type of aid/stylus?
        9. The injury that all quads suffer is enervation in the spinal cord, not in the shoulder, where it seems this nerve transfer happens. See the diagram in the article sited above. If the enervation doesn't happen from the spinal cord, how is the nerve transplant going to get it's "electrical" signals?
        10. What kind of pain occurred after the transplant?

        So...what is really accomplished...why and how?

        I'm quite skeptical on every aspect of this surgery and the reports of success.
        Well said.

        Comment


          #5
          this some 'for-profit' type trial?
          hate it when you read something that sounds too good to be true
          is this being done next to the blue shark cell transplanting clinic in Tijuana?

          Comment


            #6
            Here is more info but wish we had before video. https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/healt...ntl/index.html

            Comment


              #7
              A simple before and after video is all we need to see.
              Last edited by smity50; 7 Jul 2019, 2:28 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                There are snippets of videos on The Lancet's YouTube channel - one is a 19-second clip of a hand opening and closing, without discussion or "before" footage; the second clip is an interview with one of the 13 patients, comparing the results of surgeries he underwent as a member of the trial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICg-w0ZdV_c No "before" footage, though.

                This is hardly the kind of in-depth reporting we'd like to see, but The Lancet finds the work legitimate. The full Lancet article is behind a paywall, but there's a summary here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...143-2/fulltext
                MS with cervical and thoracic cord lesions

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bonnette View Post
                  There are snippets of videos on The Lancet's YouTube channel - one is a 19-second clip of a hand opening and closing, without discussion or "before" footage; the second clip is an interview with one of the 13 patients, comparing the results of surgeries he underwent as a member of the trial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICg-w0ZdV_c No "before" footage, though.

                  This is hardly the kind of in-depth reporting we'd like to see, but The Lancet finds the work legitimate. The full Lancet article is behind a paywall, but there's a summary here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...143-2/fulltext
                  A 15 minute podcast interview with the lead author: https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/...e_transfer.mp3
                  http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                    A 15 minute podcast interview with the lead author: https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/...e_transfer.mp3
                    Thanks, GRAMMY!
                    MS with cervical and thoracic cord lesions

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If this is totally legit I can only think it would have hit the Wise Young radar, and be plastered the world over as some JustinmSmollett rant would. Without better trial oversight or even third party review this is little more than clever editing bullshitt after a desperate market like a 1900's seance scam. You'd got to believe that true breakthrough recovery would be front page news.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Tim C. View Post
                        If this is totally legit I can only think it would have hit the Wise Young radar, and be plastered the world over as some JustinmSmollett rant would. Without better trial oversight or even third party review this is little more than clever editing bullshitt after a desperate market like a 1900's seance scam. You'd got to believe that true breakthrough recovery would be front page news.
                        This isn't a cure and they aren't talking about it as such. The mainstream press like to overstate stuff like this, but thats not the fault of the medical community.

                        Who knows why they have chosen to promote this now, maybe because they have done a few of them and there is a good level of success.

                        In terms of peer reviewed research they have published many papers on this:
                        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25063391
                        https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/533...70d69b77a6.pdf
                        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27233591
                        https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a4a...745294bd0f.pdf
                        https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....944716660555fv
                        https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....944716660555ft

                        This kind of thing has also been done in the US before,
                        https://source.wustl.edu/2015/10/sur...egic-patients/
                        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29551672
                        Last edited by niallel; 7 Jul 2019, 8:32 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The fact that this study was reported in the respected British medical journal, The Lancet, lends credence to it. In today's world of short news cycles, I'm actually not surprised that it didn't make the front pages - and sadly, we are a limited population group, so while it would be major news to us, the wider world is focused elsewhere. I've seen plenty of cancer breakthroughs - especially individually tailored chemo regimens with high success rates for previously intractable disease - that amount to a blip in the health pages of news sites, and then they're gone.
                          MS with cervical and thoracic cord lesions

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by niallel View Post
                            This isn't a cure and they aren't talking about it as such. The mainstream press like to overstate stuff like this, but thats not the fault of the medical community.

                            Who knows why they have chosen to promote this now, maybe because they have done a few of them and there is a good level of success.

                            In terms of peer reviewed research they have published many papers on this:
                            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25063391
                            https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/533...70d69b77a6.pdf
                            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27233591
                            https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a4a...745294bd0f.pdf
                            https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....944716660555fv
                            https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....944716660555ft

                            This kind of thing has also been done in the US before,
                            https://source.wustl.edu/2015/10/sur...egic-patients/
                            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29551672
                            https://spinalcordresearchandadvocac...l-cord-injury/
                            http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                            Comment

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