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An update article on Darek Fidyka

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  • #16
    The reporter did not profess knowing anything about anatomy. The OEC bulbs are at the base of the brain, behind the eyeballs Paolo.

    Here’s what happened in surgery:
    .... In April, 2012, Tabakow, with his medical team, opened up Fidyka’s skull and removed part of his olfactory bulb. The human sense of smell is not very acute, so the olfactory bulb is relatively small—about the size of a sunflower seed. (A goat’s is larger.) Tabakow and his associates next sliced the extracted tissue into two-millimetre sections, isolated the olfactory ensheathing cells, and then gave them almost two weeks to subdivide, in order to have enough cells—half a million—for the operation. Then he opened Fidyka’s spine around the T9 vertebra and made almost a hundred microinjections to situate the cells above and below the wound. He placed more of the cells onto a strip of nerve tissue that he’d extracted from Fidyka’s lower leg and inserted in his spine, in order to help span the gap in his cord. Tabakow closed the incision, and within a few weeks his patient was beginning his real rehabilitation.

    OK. I hope they quickly find a couple of more patients with knife wounds. Maybe they will show some improvement, as Darek has. I predict it will be difficult to prove it was the olfactory cells and not the nerve graft or even the heavy duty PT that did the trick. Certainly one of the major confounding factors in moving this work forward is how the olfactory bulb cells are harvested. Darek consented to have his skull opened to access the bulbs. It's hard to imagine that’s going to be the standard of care. Raisman and Tabakow have been experimenting with cadavers to get at the olfactory bulb by way of an eyebrow incision (also known as
    keyhole supraorbital craniotomy), which is somewhat less gnarly. Future wise, both suggest this treatment can be applied to people with more normal contusion injuries, once they work out a few more details.

    LINK

    Last edited by GRAMMY; 03-07-2016, 08:14 PM.
    http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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    • #17
      Originally posted by mamadavid View Post
      An article that appeared in the New Yorker Magazine in January:

      http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...dicine-d-t-max
      The actual paper it's open acces i.e. it's free.. look for it on pubmed or just google it..
      In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

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      • #18
        Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
        The OEC bulbs are at the base of the brain, behind the eyeballs.

        Here’s what happened in surgery:
        .... In April, 2012, Tabakow, with his medical team, opened up Fidyka’s skull and removed part of his olfactory bulb. The human sense of smell is not very acute, so the olfactory bulb is relatively small—about the size of a sunflower seed. (A goat’s is larger.) Tabakow and his associates next sliced the extracted tissue into two-millimetre sections, isolated the olfactory ensheathing cells, and then gave them almost two weeks to subdivide, in order to have enough cells—half a million—for the operation. Then he opened Fidyka’s spine around the T9 vertebra and made almost a hundred microinjections to situate the cells above and below the wound. He placed more of the cells onto a strip of nerve tissue that he’d extracted from Fidyka’s lower leg and inserted in his spine, in order to help span the gap in his cord. Tabakow closed the incision, and within a few weeks his patient was beginning his real rehabilitation.

        OK. I hope they quickly find a couple of more patients with knife wounds. Maybe they will show some improvement, as Darek has. I predict it will be difficult to prove it was the olfactory cells and not the nerve graft or even the heavy duty PT that did the trick. Certainly one of the major confounding factors in moving this work forward is how the olfactory bulb cells are harvested. Darek consented to have his skull opened to access the bulbs. It's hard to imagine that’s going to be the standard of care. Raisman and Tabakow have been experimenting with cadavers to get at the olfactory bulb by way of an eyebrow incision (also known as
        keyhole supraorbital craniotomy), which is somewhat less gnarly. Future wise, both suggest this treatment can be applied to people with more normal contusion injuries, once they work out a few more details.

        LINK

        So do you understand the difference between olfactory mucosa and olfactory buld? I have had the impression you don't unless english is not your first language
        In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

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        • #19
          Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
          So do you understand the difference between olfactory mucosa and olfactory buld? I have had the impression you don't unless english is not your first language
          I don't know. You're the only one that has buld that I know of.
          Last edited by GRAMMY; 03-13-2016, 01:35 PM.
          http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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          • #20
            Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
            I don't know. You're the only one that has buld that I know of.
            Ok, finally you admit your ignorance on an issue.. then you may want to read some papers about olfactory mucosa cells and olfactory bulb cells before posting more miseducating information on this line of research (they are all in english and many are open access, so just read carefully before posting).
            In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
              Ok, finally you admit your ignorance on an issue.. then you may want to read some papers about olfactory mucosa cells and olfactory bulb cells before posting more miseducating information on this line of research (they are all in english and many are open access, so just read carefully before posting).
              Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
              olfactory buld? I have had the impression you don't unless english is not your first language
              Well, your impression is right, I don't have an interest in your Italian buld but your sharing of it has been delightful. I'm glad you just read so carefully before posting so we don't get ignorant. LMAO

              Anyway, I personally think the extraction surgeries described in these articles sound too gruesome for my taste. I agree with Sam Maddox, they're a bit gnarly and probably won't be accepted as a widespread treatment unless the work on cadavers shows them a way to make it far less invasive and the recovery far superior than anything else by using these cells. After sorting out the mechanism's I doubt they find them at the heart of recovery. I bet it's more about the sural nerve grafts and years of non-stop physical rehabilitation. In fact, they could probably do a cleansing soak of the sural nerves in Ch'ase before implantation and observe Schwann cell bridges naturally crossing into and through the nerve grafts like reported in the work from the Silver lab quite some time ago. (You should probably tell them to talk to Dr. Silver for better results). The photographs of this were fantastic and the cell bridges looked good. Hopefully they'll be able to locate 2 more stabbing victims somewhere to work on that they can possibly help. I think there will be far better cellular options in the future mainstream regenerative medicine than having to disfigure living people with keyhole supraorbital craniotomies to extract olfactory bulbs so I'm not quite as excited as you are.
              Last edited by GRAMMY; 03-08-2016, 09:41 PM.
              http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                Well, your impression is right, I don't have an interest in your Italian buld but your sharing of it has been delightful. I'm glad you just read so carefully before posting so we don't get ignorant. LMAO

                Anyway, I personally think the extraction surgeries described in these articles sound too gruesome for my taste. I agree with Sam Maddox, they're a bit gnarly and probably won't be accepted as a widespread treatment unless the work on cadavers shows them a way to make it far less invasive and the recovery far superior than anything else by using these cells. After sorting out the mechanism's I doubt they find them at the heart of recovery. I bet it's more about the sural nerve grafts and years of non-stop physical rehabilitation. In fact, they could probably do a cleansing soak of the sural nerves in Ch'ase before implantation and observe Schwann cell bridges naturally crossing into and through the nerve grafts like reported in the work from the Silver lab quite some time ago. (You should probably tell them to talk to Dr. Silver for better results). The photographs of this were fantastic and the cell bridges looked good. Hopefully they'll be able to locate 2 more stabbing victims somewhere to work on that they can possibly help. I think there will be far better cellular options in the future mainstream regenerative medicine than having to disfigure living people with keyhole supraorbital craniotomies to extract olfactory bulbs so I'm not quite as excited as you are.
                I believe it is actually much easier to reach the BULD in Italy. Two glasses of table red wine and a sharp rap to the back of Paolo's head and the BULD drops easily from his nose!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by nrf View Post
                  I believe it is actually much easier to reach the BULD in Italy. Two glasses of table red wine and a sharp rap to the back of Paolo's head and the BULD drops easily from his nose!
                  Are you kidding? Never ever let a buld just pop out! That's an emergency situation but it could be saved on a shirt sleeve till help arrived.
                  http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                    Are you kidding? Never ever let a buld just pop out! That's an emergency situation but it could be saved on a shirt sleeve till help arrived.
                    You can also save BULD in a kleenex.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by nrf View Post
                      I believe it is actually much easier to reach the BULD in Italy. Two glasses of table red wine and a sharp rap to the back of Paolo's head and the BULD drops easily from his nose!
                      Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                      Are you kidding? Never ever let a buld just pop out! That's an emergency situation but it could be saved on a shirt sleeve till help arrived.
                      Originally posted by nrf View Post
                      You can also save BULD in a kleenex.

                      Ah c'mon guys, we got to stop being so 'ignorant'... everybody knows that the BULD is better kept on ice until help arrives, if no ice is available you can improvise by inserting two popsicles or gelatos one on each nostril...
                      "Talk without the support of action means nothing..."
                      ― DaShanne Stokes

                      ***Unite(D) to Fight Paralyses***

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Moe View Post
                        Ah c'mon guys, we got to stop being so 'ignorant'... everybody knows that the BULD is better kept on ice until help arrives, if no ice is available you can improvise by inserting two popsicles or gelatos one on each nostril...
                        Don't forget the best option of all Moe, you should take the Italian Interstate Highway. Also known as the "BULD to Butt Shortcut" in Germany!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Moe View Post
                          Ah c'mon guys, we got to stop being so 'ignorant'... everybody knows that the BULD is better kept on ice until help arrives, if no ice is available you can improvise by inserting two popsicles or gelatos one on each nostril...
                          Yes, I very carefully read the open access journals and they said Kleenex/dry hot climates cause shriveling of buld. If there is no hydration you can only wipe your hands clean of the situation and put your poor buld out there on an EBay listing. It's a goner.
                          http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                            Yes, I very carefully read the open access journals and they said Kleenex/dry hot climates cause shriveling of buld. If there is no hydration you can only wipe your hands clean of the situation and put your poor buld out there on an EBay listing. It's a goner.
                            Ebay listing with a "BULD It Now" option...
                            "Talk without the support of action means nothing..."
                            ― DaShanne Stokes

                            ***Unite(D) to Fight Paralyses***

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Thought this thread was for updates on Darek. Is it possible to do a sticky thread for bullying paolo? Now it's starting to get difficult to extract the actual info.
                              Debating on CareCure is like participating in the special-olympics. You may win, but you're still disabled.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by void View Post
                                Thought this thread was for updates on Darek.
                                No, the thread I posted here said "An update article on Darek Fidyka". Good grief, it was just to mention one lone journalist's article http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...dicine-d-t-max , not an ongoing carecure thread for his biography updates. I'm sure there will be many more media stories in future years and people will invariably post them in their own separate threads as journalist's put them on the internet. There's no telling when the media will write new ones.
                                Last edited by GRAMMY; 03-12-2016, 10:57 PM.
                                http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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