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    #76
    Originally posted by Jim View Post
    Not to mention, there is NO way to predict how animal experiments will translate into humans. If ChinaSCINet had done studies in large animals, they would not have yet completed Phase II in humans. They made the right call going forward in humans, as you will clearly see when results are published.
    Can I presume that you will be receiving the UCB + lithium + methylpresnidone(sp.) therapy as soon as it (if it) becomes available to the States?

    I'm 99% sure that even Dr. Young would agree with me about the importance of animal studies. You should ask him. From my understanding, he said it was not possible to test his therapy in animals due to HLA matching of the UCB (which if true, makes it a special case)(how did you not know this?). He never said he skipped the studies because they are a waste of time.
    Last edited by Nowhere Man; 3 Feb 2015, 8:26 PM.

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      #77
      Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
      I wonder too. I guess it looks to be the testing of various cell types and different medical conditions available at that hospital or something.
      Are you a doubter Grammy? Get your negativity off this forum!

      They got dogs to walk with NO STEM CELLS. BEST RECOVERY in HISTORY! (Yet they decide to add stem cells in their human trial. No one here has ready the study). Oh well...a chinese news article says "Paralysed dogs walk again in breakthrough spinal cord experiment by Chinese scientists" That's good enough for me.

      This is it the end is near.

      Comment


        #78
        I admire your excitement for dogs. Even though they walk on 4's compared to us on 2's and the fact that their cords are not as complex as ours... Oh well, as long you're happy, good for you.

        BTW, I'm a doubter, what's wrong with that in your world? tell me...

        Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
        Are you a doubter Grammy? Get your negativity off this forum!

        They got dogs to walk with NO STEM CELLS. BEST RECOVERY in HISTORY! (Yet they decide to add stem cells in their human trial. No one here has ready the study). Oh well...a chinese news article says "Paralysed dogs walk again in breakthrough spinal cord experiment by Chinese scientists" That's good enough for me.

        This is it the end is near.
        Last edited by Moe; 3 Feb 2015, 9:20 PM.
        "Talk without the support of action means nothing..."
        ― DaShanne Stokes

        ***Unite(D) to Fight Paralyses***

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          #79
          And we all know how inferior the Chinese neurosurgeons and scientists are.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by Moe View Post
            I admire your excitement for dogs. Even though they walk on 4's compared to us on 2's and the fact that their cords are not as complex as ours... Oh well, as long you're happy, good for you.

            BTW, I'm a doubter, what's wrong with that in your world? tell me...
            So what if they walk on all 4's? Their spinal cords are damn complex, close enough to a humans. If a treatment causes robust regeneration and recovery of limbs in a complete transected dog, I see no reason why substantial recovery would not also be seen in humans. It's almost a guarantee to also work in humans (assuming it had worked in complete transected dogs). Why would a Chinese news article claim that the dogs walked if it weren't true? That kind of thing never happens over here. News stories never over-hype. They're experts.

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              #81
              You got the right to think whatever you want but I prefer learning this from someone experienced in the field, not from a part-time accountant. Thanks anyways. I'll ask your advice for my income-tax instead.

              I'm Under the impression when I read your posts that its just a knowlege compitition for you. You express like everything you say are true facts and thats it, otherwise whoever disagrees with you are idiots, right?

              Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
              So what if they walk on all 4's? Their spinal cords are damn complex, close enough to a humans. If a treatment causes robust regeneration and recovery of limbs in a complete transected dog, I see no reason why substantial recovery would not also be seen in humans. It's almost a guarantee to also work in humans (assuming it had worked in complete transected dogs). Why would a Chinese news article claim that the dogs walked if it weren't true? That kind of thing never happens over here. News stories never over-hype. They're experts.
              Last edited by Moe; 3 Feb 2015, 10:33 PM.
              "Talk without the support of action means nothing..."
              ― DaShanne Stokes

              ***Unite(D) to Fight Paralyses***

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by Moe View Post
                You got the right to think whatever you want but I prefer learning this from someone experienced in the field, not from a part-time accountant. Thanks anyways. I'll ask your advice for my income-tax instead.

                I'm Under the impression when I read your posts that its just a knowlege compitition for you. You express like everything you say are true facts and thats it, otherwise whoever disagrees with you are idiots, right?
                "knowledge competition" --> just kidding I swear

                If someone disagrees with me vocally, I expect a logical reason why, not just emotional outbursts. It is not a knowledge competition but I do hope that members actually try to pursue knowledge instead of just pursuing false hope.

                If you don't like what I have to say to you then stop asking me questions!

                Comment


                  #83
                  When I read your posts I'm under the impression that you express like everything you say are true facts and thats it, whoever disagrees with you are morons... then you go on and on and on... don't worry nor stress yourself, I'll learn the facts when the study results comes out, anyways I didn't need to be an expert mechanic to just drive a car, nor planning to fix my cord myself to get back walking.

                  "but I do hope that members actually try to pursue knowledge instead of just pursuing false hope."

                  I think most of the people you're refering to are smart enough to figure it out for themselves, no need to lose sleep on it...
                  Last edited by Moe; 3 Feb 2015, 10:49 PM.
                  "Talk without the support of action means nothing..."
                  ― DaShanne Stokes

                  ***Unite(D) to Fight Paralyses***

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Nerve Regeneration-guided Collagen Scaffold and Mesenchymal Stem Cells Transplantation in Spinal Cord Injury Patients

                    Criteria
                    Inclusion Criteria:
                    1. Male or female, 18-65 years old.
                    2. Completely spinal cord injury at the cervical and thoracic level (C5-T12).
                    3. Classification ASIA A with no significant further improvement.



                    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/...m+cell&rank=13

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
                      "knowledge competition" --> just kidding I swear

                      If someone disagrees with me vocally, I expect a logical reason why, not just emotional outbursts. It is not a knowledge competition but I do hope that members actually try to pursue knowledge instead of just pursuing false hope.

                      If you don't like what I have to say to you then stop asking me questions!
                      Vocally? Really mister Intelligence? Are you hearing voices in your head? Or was that just an emotional outburst?

                      Kudos to you for pursuing knowledge, but don?t confuse a ?wait and see? attitude with ?false hope?. Many on this site, who have been in this game a lot longer than you, have been through this hype too numerous of times and do take a ?wait and see? attitude. Or as Missourian?s would say, ?Show me?.

                      You can analyze the animal trials 3 ways from Sunday, but in the end all that analysis will not change the results of the trial underway or the trail that is reported to start soon.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by Moe View Post
                        When I read your posts I'm under the impression that you express like everything you say are true facts and thats it, whoever disagrees with you are morons... then you go on and on and on... don't worry nor stress yourself, I'll learn the facts when the study results comes out, anyways I didn't need to be an expert mechanic to just drive a car, nor planning to fix my cord myself to get back walking.

                        "but I do hope that members actually try to pursue knowledge instead of just pursuing false hope."

                        I think most of the people you're refering to are smart enough to figure it out for themselves, no need to lose sleep on it...
                        Agree to disagree

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
                          Are you a doubter Grammy? Get your negativity off this forum!

                          They got dogs to walk with NO STEM CELLS. BEST RECOVERY in HISTORY! (Yet they decide to add stem cells in their human trial. No one here has read the dog study). Oh well...a chinese news article says "Paralysed dogs walk again in breakthrough spinal cord experiment by Chinese scientists" That's good enough for me.

                          This is it the end is near.
                          The global media hasn't bothered to pick up this piece and the problem may be exactly the one I asked about in my first post. Nearly always, a high impact study and huge international recognition on good research will at least have the links to the pertinent animals studies that were peer reviewed and published in a medical journal or mentioned so interested parties can look them up. It's glaringly absent here guys on the just the few posted pieces. I feel like I'm trying to read and find important facts in the "Enquirer" or something. I can't get excited unless I see how the animal studies fared. I never would blindly participate in a clinical trial unless I took the time to read through the animal studies that led up to the experimental treatment I was choosing to undergo and also shared them with my doctor so I could ask additional questions. I just don't see what there is to discuss at this point without having a link into the pertinent animal studies. Maybe Wise would be able to find them... Hopefully everyone here at the forum already knows that they really must do their homework before submitting themselves to clinical trial participation. It is important to find everything you can read on a SCI subject before signing on the dotted line. (This isn't the first group to work with collagen and MSC injected into sci lesions).
                          http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
                            Can I presume that you will be receiving the UCB + lithium + methylpresnidone(sp.) therapy as soon as it (if it) becomes available to the States?

                            I'm 99% sure that even Dr. Young would agree with me about the importance of animal studies. You should ask him. From my understanding, he said it was not possible to test his therapy in animals due to HLA matching of the UCB (which if true, makes it a special case)(how did you not know this?). He never said he skipped the studies because they are a waste of time.
                            We won't know until the phase III is complete if it in fact works, and if so, what combination is most effective. Might be cells + rehab or cells + MP + rehab. Of course animal studies are absolutely necessary, never meant to imply they weren't. When the leading neurosurgeons and researchers decide a therapy is safe to move to humans we must. Animal studies are not saving the thousands of people we lose every year.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by NWC4 View Post
                              Vocally? Really mister Intelligence? Are you hearing voices in your head? Or was that just an emotional outburst?

                              Kudos to you for pursuing knowledge, but don?t confuse a ?wait and see? attitude with ?false hope?. Many on this site, who have been in this game a lot longer than you, have been through this hype too numerous of times and do take a ?wait and see? attitude. Or as Missourian?s would say, ?Show me?.

                              You can analyze the animal trials 3 ways from Sunday, but in the end all that analysis will not change the results of the trial underway or the trail that is reported to start soon.
                              Stop embarrassing yourself. You do know there are different meanings to a word?
                              1vocal

                              adjective \ˈvō-kəl\
                              : of, relating to, or produced by the voice
                              : expressing opinions in a public and forceful way
                              http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vocal

                              I saw a lot of excitement in this thread when there is little information known about the therapy. I wouldn't call that "wait and see", more like "This is great, until I get let down".

                              SCI community can help facilitate research. The best way to spend the money is to fund the right projects. Unfortunately, that requires analyzing animal data. So a “wait and see” approach is a losing game. Ask people who donated to Stephen Davies.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Speaking of embarrassing, here's one for the record...
                                know-it-all

                                noun \ˈnō-ət-ˌȯl\ : a person who talks and behaves like someone who knows everything

                                http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/know-it-all

                                Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
                                Stop embarrassing yourself. You do know there are different meanings to a word?
                                1vocal

                                adjective \ˈvō-kəl\
                                : of, relating to, or produced by the voice
                                : expressing opinions in a public and forceful way
                                http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vocal

                                I saw a lot of excitement in this thread when there is little information known about the therapy. I wouldn't call that "wait and see", more like "This is great, until I get let down".

                                SCI community can help facilitate research. The best way to spend the money is to fund the right projects. Unfortunately, that requires analyzing animal data. So a ?wait and see? approach is a losing game. Ask people who donated to Stephen Davies.
                                "Talk without the support of action means nothing..."
                                ― DaShanne Stokes

                                ***Unite(D) to Fight Paralyses***

                                Comment

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