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Doctors in China carry out world first spine surgery

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  • alan gong and jyi, our website requires that you post in English. In the future, please add a translation. Thank you.

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    • Sorry, my English is very poor. I will try my best. btw, I think alan gong's "微信" means WeChat , an online instant messaging app.

      Originally posted by Jim View Post
      alan gong and jyi, our website requires that you post in English. In the future, please add a translation. Thank you.

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      • OK are they actually fully removing the scar tissue from the spinal cord before enplaning the collagen scaffold? I'm pretty sure that I read in the official statements that is what they're doing.

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        • Scar tissue does not prevent regeneration.

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          • Well I've heard from many that it does. The glial do they not remove that and then plant the collagen scaffolding in the lesion left behind

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            • Originally posted by Jim View Post
              Scar tissue does not prevent regeneration.
              Not everybody agree with you:

              "Following injury, specialised glial cells that normally support neurons accumulate at the injury site and deposit scar tissue.
              Scar tissue is a major obstacle to spinal cord repair because it creates a physical and biochemical blockage that neurons must grow through. Perhaps more importantly, molecules that inhibit neuronal growth are especially concentrated in the scar."

              http://www.spinal-research.org/resea...y-scar-tissue/

              Perhaps you just meant to say that some researchers believe "scar tissue does not prevent regeneration" and some do.
              In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

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              • "We show that glial scar, which is common in neurodegenerative conditions, inhibits the survival of intraneurally transplanted cells in our rat glial scar model in the auditory system. However, cells placed on the surface of scar tissue autonomously enter the nerve and become functionally integrated into the host. The glial scar, normally considered to be a barrier to cell transplantation, includes important structural and chemical cues that are disrupted by intraneural delivery but preserved by surface transplantation."

                "Our results show that intraneural transplantation to the auditory nerve, preceded by chondroitinase ABC (ChABC)-treatment, is ineffective. There is no functional recovery, and almost all transplanted cells die within a few weeks. However, when donor cells are placed on the surface of a ChABC-treated gliotic auditory nerve, they autonomously migrate into it and recapitulate glia- and neuron-guided cell migration modes to repair the auditory pathway and recover auditory function."

                http://www.pnas.org/content/112/26/E3431
                Last edited by Jyi; 08-24-2015, 08:29 PM.

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                • Unfortunately, Chondroitinase isn't available yet for humans. Stay tuned to the translative work of Spinal Research in the U.K.
                  http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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                  • Originally posted by Jim View Post
                    Scar tissue does not prevent regeneration.
                    Jim, while I personally believe this is open for debate, those from your/Wise's camp often make this point on here, yet no alternative theory is provided.

                    Could you elaborate on what DOES prevent regeneration, in your/Wise's opinion? Even if it is not gliosis at the site of the injury, obviously something is preventing functional regeneration - otherwise everyone would be ASIA E after their injury.

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                    • Originally posted by tomsonite View Post
                      Jim, while I personally believe this is open for debate, those from your/Wise's camp often make this point on here, yet no alternative theory is provided.

                      Could you elaborate on what DOES prevent regeneration, in your/Wise's opinion? Even if it is not gliosis at the site of the injury, obviously something is preventing functional regeneration - otherwise everyone would be ASIA E after their injury.
                      There is a lack of a cellular bridge for axons to travel.

                      Most importantly, is that adult neurons don't regenerate their axons. It is genetic. You can get rid of any scar obstruction, provide a beautiful bridge to cross, but the axons would still not move. You may find proof of .0001% that may move a few mm's but the overwhelming majority intrinsically do not move. This is why genetic therapy is really the only way to get host axons to regenerate, imo.

                      Even if you could get them to miraculously regenerate, they wouldn't know where to go. SCI is like a brain injury, only with the cord (same tissue as brain).

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                      • Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
                        There is a lack of a cellular bridge for axons to travel.

                        Most importantly, is that adult neurons don't regenerate their axons. It is genetic. You can get rid of any scar obstruction, provide a beautiful bridge to cross, but the axons would still not move. You may find proof of .0001% that may move a few mm's but the overwhelming majority intrinsically do not move. This is why genetic therapy is really the only way to get host axons to regenerate, imo.

                        Even if you could get them to miraculously regenerate, they wouldn't know where to go. SCI is like a brain injury, only with the cord (same tissue as brain).
                        Peripheral nerves can (they don't always, but often can) regenerate quite nicely, given certain circumstances, and their neuronal cell bodies are in the spinal cord. There are many different kinds of neurons but at least some of them can grow their axons after injury, following a "bridge", as you propose, of schwann cells.

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                        • Tom, you are right, it is open for debate, but when several scientist's studies (Kai Liu, Paul Lu, & others) have documented rivers of axons growing through animal injury sites, it is completely inaccurate to state that glial scars prevent regeneration. I'm confused why researchers are talking about cutting out the 'scar' when there is concrete evidence it is not necessary.

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                          • Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
                            There is a lack of a cellular bridge for axons to travel.

                            Most importantly, is that adult neurons don't regenerate their axons. It is genetic. You can get rid of any scar obstruction, provide a beautiful bridge to cross, but the axons would still not move. You may find proof of .0001% that may move a few mm's but the overwhelming majority intrinsically do not move. This is why genetic therapy is really the only way to get host axons to regenerate, imo.

                            Even if you could get them to miraculously regenerate, they wouldn't know where to go. SCI is like a brain injury, only with the cord (same tissue as brain).
                            Seem Dr. Silvers peptide was able to get the axons to move in rat models. I believe that yes axons don't know where to go, but I believe with very intensive constant functional rehab , That the body can be rewired sort to speak. Dr. Young and a lot of the researchers in China have stated this is vital after any treatment that is why!

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                            • Don't See how gene therapy will help a chronic spinal cord injury I can understand it could benefit an acute spinal cord injury but not chronic after the damage has already been done and sat for a long time!

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                              • Clearly the doctors in this trial, and the clinical trial in Russia believe that the scar is an obstacle for regeneration!

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