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    a question for DR YOUNG

    i recieved a newsletter from healingtherepies about rerouting nerves can you tell me of any cases you know of were this has been sucessfull. [img]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/img]

    #2
    glomae,

    This has been discussed extensively. Dr. Zhang in Shanghai has been doing nerve briding from ventral root above the injury site to various nerves below the injury site, including bladder. Dr. Giorgio Brunelli has also been doing a more radical form of the nerve bridging by inserting a peripheral nerve into the spinal cord above the injury site.

    A number of people have gone to Shanghai, including some on this site, and have been operated on by Zhang. You can search on this site for his name. You will have to judge for yourself whether the procedure is worth it. I think that it has theoretical potential but unfortunately Zhang has not published his experience in detail (at least in Western journals). I spoke to Zhang last year and was impressed (he has done hundreds of cases).

    Much controversy surrounds Brunelli's work and I have discussed some of the problems inherent in the procedure. However, Carlstedt at the Royal National Orthopedic Hospital at Stanmore, London, has reported some success in reimplanting avulsed spinal roots back into the spinal cord.

    I hope that this has been helpful.

    Wise.

    Comment


      #3
      thanks dr i visited the site www.healingtherapies.info and found alot of info and several procedures and guess what they even mention us[carecure]

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by glomae:

        thanks dr i visited the site http://www.healingtherapies.info and found alot of info and several procedures and guess what they even mention us[carecure]
        Glomae,
        Thanks for the link to this site..
        Most interesting. We caretakers of paralyzed
        dogs have found acupuncture to be of benefit.

        And of course water therapies.
        I found the powdered chicken feet to be a bit
        out there..but the dolphin therapy most
        possible in theory. Perhaps their sonar works
        a bit like the acupuncture.

        We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what
        we give.
        Winston Churchill
        Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

        Comment


          #5
          Lindox,

          How good to hear that acupuncture has benefited your dogs. Acupuncture is more and more accepted and applied in Europe. They offer courses at the Medical Universities. The anesthetists I've heard all have gone to China for few months to learn it. Though I can imagine you need a lot of experience to know how to do it. Since last year it is even paid by the European social health insurances...Some of the patients found relief by acupuncture, though nobody seems to be able to tell why it works. How long is it now that you have started it? I would love to kiss your dog's pains and troubles away. It makes me feeling so small not to be able to do anything in this direction.

          Janet [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Piela:

            Lindox,

            How good to hear that acupuncture has benefited your dogs. Acupuncture is more and more accepted and applied in Europe. They offer courses at the Medical Universities. The anesthetists I’ve heard all have gone to China for few months to learn it. Though I can imagine you need a lot of experience to know how to do it. Since last year it is even paid by the European social health insurances...Some of the patients found relief by acupuncture, though nobody seems to be able to tell why it works. How long is it now that you have started it? I would love to kiss your dog’s pains and troubles away. It makes me feeling so small not to be able to do anything in this direction.

            Janet [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
            Janet,
            Many of our dogs have and do receive acupuncture treatments. Just like any alternate treatment..well can you really know
            if it is what is helping..or the other 20 things you are trying. We can't..but with certain combinations and with certain pups
            these things help...but not cure.

            As with humans...it depends on the severity
            of the injury to the cord and the amount
            of secondary damages.
            If a kiss could cure these babies...well all
            would be healed. And the remarkable part is
            these little dogs would take the humans paralysis on themselves to bear if they could.
            If you want to read about the acupuncture and other alternative therapies being used with
            our pups visit: http://www.dodgerslist.com.
            Thanks for caring.

            We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what
            we give.
            Winston Churchill
            Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you, Lindox

              Modern science is starting to verify that some of these age-old remedies really work. The evidence is promising enough that Western researchers have begun looking to China for potential new therapies. I was interested in integrating Eastern and Western philosophies and finding a common language. Why should people use just one modality? I remember reading about some professor of radiology using functional magnetic resonance imagining to examine the effects of foot acupuncture on brain activity. We used to think these were mysterious energies, but not anymore. I know there are no cures, but some of these alternative medicines help relieve pain.

              Janet [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

              Comment


                #8
                dr young how do i go about finding the person on this forum that has had nerve re routing so i could get more specefics on the procedure, mainly the cost invovled and the process in order to get started.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Try the following topic in the Announcement Forum from Tifani

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dr. Young,

                    Has this kind of test been ever made? :

                    A child breaks his spine and he has no brother or syster. The parents decide to have one in order to cure his paralysis. So some of their eggs are fertilized and the scientists choose the one which is genetically best fit the genetic of the injured boy. This egg is then implanted into the mom and when the new kid borns, his umbilical cord blood's stem cells are injected into the injured boy.

                    If this test has not been made yet, what would you expect in this kind of experiment?

                    What would you expect if embryonic stem cells were used instead of umbilical cor blood's stem cells?
                    Thanks
                    Bubo

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Bubo,

                      To my knowledge, what you describe has not been done. The reason is that there is no need for such a complicated procedure to get umbilical cord blood. Available umbilical cord blood from unrelated donors may be sufficient. Let me explain further.

                      There are six major histocompatability antigens (called HLA) that usually need to be matched, in addition to blood type (ABO) when surgeons do organ transplants. The chances of a perfect match are very low (on the order 1 in millions), even among siblings. For most adult cell transplants, for example from bone marrow, it is necessary to get as close a match as possible if the transplant is expected to survive. Immunosuppression is necessary if the match is not close.

                      However, in the case of umbilical cord blood, there is much evidence suggesting that umbilical cord blood tranplants will successfully engraft even 4 out of 6 matching of HLA antigens from unrelated donors. There are currently enough umbilical cord blood units stored around the world such that it is possible to find that kind of match within a few days.

                      There was a recent published studying claiming that human umbilical cord blood transfusions to spinal-injured rats improve functional recovery, see topic entitled "Adult Stem Cells Aid in Repair of Neurological Damage Caused by Degeneration or Trauma". In my opinion, however, the data for regeneration and treatment of chronic spinal cord injury with umbilical cord blood transfusions is still very weak. Note that there is currently no evidence that transfusion of umbilical cord blood improves function recovery in chronic spinal cord injury in animals.

                      People can get umbilical cord blood transfusions now, if they want to. In fact, at least two organizations in California and Georgia offer umbilical cord blood transfusions. I understand that the Tijuana group is offering such transfusions as well. I don't know the details of how well the umbilical cord blood is matched and whether any of these places are even asking patients to be examined by a qualified doctor before and after the transfusion, and whether they are taking step to ascertain that the transplanted have engrafted.

                      How can you tell the transplanted cells have engrafted? Umbilical cord blood contains hematopoietic stem cells (cells that make blood cells) and one way you can tell that the transplanted hematopoietic cells have engrafted and are making new blood cells is to obtain blood samples from the person several months later and determine whether there are cells in the blood that match the genotype of the transplanted cells.

                      Note that most studies of umbilical cord blood transplants have examined the results of the transplants in patients who are immunologically depressed or suppressed. For example, the most frequent use of umbilical cord blood transplants is in patients who have had chemotherapy or radiation therapy that destroyed their bone marrow. In such patients, there is an 80% chance that the transplant will engraft. In immunologically competent people, such as somebody with spinal cord injury, they may need a short period of cyclosporin or FK506 treatment to suppress the immune system and increase the chances of graft survival. There is a need to carry out such a study in humans. Such a trial is being planned.

                      Transplantation of the cells into the spinal cord is another matter. Since this is a more invasive procedure, some animal data is required to support the clinical trial. It is not just a matter of demonstrating benefit but also assessing risk of such transplants. It would not be good, for example, if the transplanted cells produced blood cells in the spinal cord. These studies are underway.

                      Wise.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Dear Dr. Young

                        thanks for the info.

                        What is the difference between the umbilical cord blood's stem cells and the so called neuronal stem cells?
                        Thank you
                        Bubo

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Many scientists are not sure that there are pluripotent stem cells in umbilical cord blood. While much evidence suggest that there are hematopoietic stem cells in umbilical cord blood. That is what it is mostly used for.

                          Neural stem cells are from the brain. They are either obtained from fetuses or adults. In the first case, they can come from aborted fetuses. In the latter case, they would need to take a piece of the brain, in the subventricular zone.

                          In the United States, fetal neural stem cells are very controversial and I believe that they are unlikely to be used in a large scale.

                          Bone marrow stem cells are of course obtained from the person's own bone marrow if possible. If an autograft (from one person to him/herself) is not possible, there are bone marrow banks but the cells have to be closely matched to prevent immune rejection.

                          At the present, umbilical cord blood represents the only viable major and diverse source of potential stem cells that is available for heterografts (transplant from one person to another)

                          Wise.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            [
                            so as far as I understand, there are no fetal neuronal stem cells and adult neuronal stem cells has not been injected to the lesion site of the SC so far. Am I correct?

                            Do anyone plan such surgery? would that help axon growth and guidance instead of only replacing died neurons?
                            Thank you
                            Jozsef

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Many groups have transplanted fetal cells to the chronically injured spinal cords. Several groups in Russia and China have claimed to have injected fetal neural stem cells into chronically injured human spinal cords. What these cells do and whether this treatment is beneficial are controversial. Wise.

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