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    Glial scars

    Is there any proven method to remove a glial scar permanently? I understand Chondroitinase is a potential option, but from what I've read administration of the enzyme is difficult, and results aren't permanent, correct me if I'm wrong. Does UnTethering surgery do anything to a glial scar, it is used to help with large growing cyst (synrix) on the spinal cord correct? I think getting Past these scars is essential for effective regeneration to take place whether by stem cells or therapy. Maybe even for a epidural stimulator to be more effective.

    #2
    It is not necessary to remove "glial scars." Many rat studies (Kai Liu, Paul Lu, Mary Bunge) have shown that axons grow across the injury site. It is foolish to suggest that the injury site should be "cut out."

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      #3
      Originally posted by Jim View Post
      It is not necessary to remove "glial scars." Many rat studies (Kai Liu, Paul Lu, Mary Bunge) have shown that axons grow across the injury site. It is foolish to suggest that the injury site should be "cut out."
      Why do you write stuff like this Jim? This forum is supposed to be educating and you know how many researchers that disagree. At least write that some suggest that glial scars is not the problem. I know Wise works from this hypothesis but most researcher seem to see the scar as a big issue. And just because something is possibly doesn't mean it's inhibitory.
      Debating on CareCure is like participating in the special-olympics. You may win, but you're still disabled.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by JamesMcM View Post
        Is there any proven method to remove a glial scar permanently? I understand Chondroitinase is a potential option, but from what I've read administration of the enzyme is difficult, and results aren't permanent, correct me if I'm wrong. Does UnTethering surgery do anything to a glial scar, it is used to help with large growing cyst (synrix) on the spinal cord correct? I think getting Past these scars is essential for effective regeneration to take place whether by stem cells or therapy. Maybe even for a epidural stimulator to be more effective.
        Studies are underway right now to find out more about these very suggestions. We should start hearing something this winter on preliminary results.
        http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by void View Post
          Why do you write stuff like this Jim? This forum is supposed to be educating and you know how many researchers that disagree. At least write that some suggest that glial scars is not the problem. I know Wise works from this hypothesis but most researcher seem to see the scar as a big issue. And just because something is possibly doesn't mean it's inhibitory.
          Yes Void, this forum is absolutely about education.

          I wrote the above because James asked a question and I offered my opinion. There is concrete evidence from independent labs that many, many axons grow across the "glial scar." He is newly injured and has been led to believe the injury site needs to be removed because it prevents regeneration. How did he come to believe this? Are there research studies that show the injury site prevents regeneration? It is scarey to me that he thinks a piece of his cord needs to be cut out for him to recover.

          Comment


            #6
            Perhaps I could help out here a little bit if I may... Jim is correct in that you don't want to solve the problem of glia, macrophages and proteoglycans by cutting it out. Chondroitinase will diminish it for a period of time, but even then, eventually it accumulates once again. It's not a permanent solution. With the application of Chondroitinase, they're hoping to get lots of regeneration going before the window of opportunity closes again around the lesion site. It's a bit more complicated than you're probably thinking. It may help to type Chondroitinase into the search box and read through a few more of the threads and feedback that has been posted here. I know you're interested in hydrogels and scaffolding also. I put a video just today where they're working on smart materials to be built into these neural interfaces. Even scaffolding and the "cell padding" article you frequently talk about is much more complicated than one would initially think. They're working with smart materials to find the best materials for dealing with glia and macrophages rushing into the injury site along with the accumulation of proteoglycan. They are working with utilizing Chondroitinase in a gene therapy so it can be turned on and off also. Hopefully that will be successful and can go to clinical trial with any luck. They're looking at several different options that may help.
            Last edited by GRAMMY; 12 Oct 2014, 1:23 AM.
            http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Jim View Post
              It is not necessary to remove "glial scars." Many rat studies (Kai Liu, Paul Lu, Mary Bunge) have shown that axons grow across the injury site. It is foolish to suggest that the injury site should be "cut out."
              I would never suggest that, I only asked if untethering surgery had any effect on a glial scar. But that's good to know it's not absolutely necessary just curious if there could be potential for more recovery if it was out of the picture.

              I understand that the word "remove" was not the best term to use,, should've used dissolved, disintegrate see where you thought I was talking about cutting it out now, my apologies.
              Last edited by JamesMcM; 12 Oct 2014, 1:45 AM.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                Studies are underway right now to find out more about these very suggestions. We should start hearing something this winter on preliminary results.
                Any idea what labs?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by JamesMcM View Post
                  Any idea what labs?
                  Yes. I can get back to you within the next week or two with more information on what I'm allowed to discuss (if anything). If a paper is being written, there will be nothing to discuss until after it is published.
                  Last edited by GRAMMY; 12 Oct 2014, 3:28 AM.
                  http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                    Perhaps I could help out here a little bit if I may... Jim is correct in that you don't want to solve the problem of glia, macrophages and proteoglycans by cutting it out. Chondroitinase will diminish it for a period of time, but even then, eventually it accumulates once again. It's not a permanent solution. With the application of Chondroitinase, they're hoping to get lots of regeneration going before the window of opportunity closes again around the lesion site. It's a bit more complicated than you're probably thinking. It may help to type Chondroitinase into the search box and read through a few more of the threads and feedback that has been posted here. I know you're interested in hydrogels and scaffolding also. I put a video just today where they're working on smart materials to be built into these neural interfaces. Even scaffolding and the "cell padding" article you frequently talk about is much more complicated than one would initially think. They're working with smart materials to find the best materials for dealing with glia and macrophages rushing into the injury site along with the accumulation of proteoglycan. They are working with utilizing Chondroitinase in a gene therapy so it can be turned on and off also. Hopefully that will be successful and can go to clinical trial with any luck. They're looking at several different options that may help.
                    . I've read a little bit about this actually, don't these "smart materials" have the potential to send Chondroitinase at The injury site to deal with the scars, then send stem cells for regeneration hopefully and inhibitors to prevent further damage. I believe a combination therapy like that will be the cure we all hope for. Obviously in conjunction with an intense walking program, and arm and hand rehab for quadriplegics.

                    On a sidenote in general are these scaffolds we hear about biodegradable, dissolvable? I'm pretty sure I read they are, but can't quite remember.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Much depends on chemical makeup. Some dissolve extremely fast (in fact too fast for axons to get across it and grow) and then some implants are permanent and won't dissolve at all. They become too stiff and brittle and won't support soft delicate axonal growth. Depending on what you're designing, some need a very soft application and others want the scaffolding to be more stiff. The actual chemical makeup of scaffolds can be worlds apart. Yes, there is a sugar derived coating within a scaffold that can keep Chondroitinase at a viable temperature (thermostabilized Ch'ase) for sustained release for up to 6 weeks. It was made at Georgia Tech by Ravi Bellamkonda and Ryan Gilbert Lab of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. http://faculty.rpi.edu/node/1038 http://www.ravi.gatech.edu/ and also http://ravi.gatech.edu/publications


                      There's incredible diverse designs within them also. To be really honest, nobody has the perfect combination nailed down yet. If they did, it would be nobel prize worthy. There's labs working through series of tests to find the best possible stem cell candidates to potentially repair the CNS, there's multiple labs working on inhibiting proteoglycans and even labs working on formulating the best growth cocktails, gene therapies and natural peptides that may help too. It's just my opinion, but so far, we don't have the best solutions all figured out and put into an exact therapy that will specifically help with chronic applications. There's quite a few labs that are now working with more than one lone mechanism at a time.
                      Last edited by GRAMMY; 12 Oct 2014, 1:28 PM.
                      http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jim View Post
                        Yes Void, this forum is absolutely about education.

                        I wrote the above because James asked a question and I offered my opinion. There is concrete evidence from independent labs that many, many axons grow across the "glial scar." He is newly injured and has been led to believe the injury site needs to be removed because it prevents regeneration. How did he come to believe this? Are there research studies that show the injury site prevents regeneration? It is scarey to me that he thinks a piece of his cord needs to be cut out for him to recover.
                        He never mentioned any cutting.
                        In the introduction Silver discuss the topic: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3334458/
                        If it's your opinion say it and why, and don't act like it's a indisputable fact. To say that the other opinion is foolish when so many researchers support it is not a very desirable scientific discussion.
                        Debating on CareCure is like participating in the special-olympics. You may win, but you're still disabled.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by void View Post
                          He never mentioned any cutting.
                          In the introduction Silver discuss the topic: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3334458/
                          If it's your opinion say it and why, and don't act like it's a indisputable fact. To say that the other opinion is foolish when so many researchers support it is not a very desirable scientific discussion.
                          Void, the following is a recent review article that I wrote about spinal cord regeneration. It is very detailed and cites many researchers in the field.

                          By the way, there is an error in the article that I did not catch during proof-reading. In the abstract, where I say "Blockade of Nogo, CSPG, and their receptors indeed can stop axon growth in vitro..." and I really meant "Blockade of Nogo, CSPG, and their receptor indeed can stimulate axonal growth in vitro...".

                          Wise.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by Wise Young; 12 Oct 2014, 10:53 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jim View Post
                            Yes Void, this forum is absolutely about education.

                            I wrote the above because James asked a question and I offered my opinion. There is concrete evidence from independent labs that many, many axons grow across the "glial scar." He is newly injured and has been led to believe the injury site needs to be removed because it prevents regeneration. How did he come to believe this? Are there research studies that show the injury site prevents regeneration? It is scarey to me that he thinks a piece of his cord needs to be cut out for him to recover.
                            Is there a difference in the number of axons which grow across a glial scar vs the number which would grow across a significantly smaller scar or would grow with no scar at all?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Do you think that the damaged cellular structure remaining after injury might actually act as a scaffold of sorts? I have wondered that since the proposals of artificial structural implants began to be talked about. There are some articles and opinions that implanted stem cells migrate out of unrestrained space. So many theories seem to exist that it is difficult to sort out.

                              Originally posted by scisucks View Post
                              Is there a difference in the number of axons which grow across a glial scar vs the number which would grow across a significantly smaller scar or would grow with no scar at all?

                              Comment

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