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  • Exoskeletons

    Seriously, in my opinion exoskeletons are a massive waste of money, it should be directed towards regenerative therapies, not just for SCI but for all neurological disorders causing paralysis. Right now all the exoskeletons are only for paras, massive and bulky and it's going to take years for an actual effective piece of hardware that can move on rugged terrain or stairs freeway. It's a joke what's the point when you can't feel your limbs (potentially dangerous), or control your bowel and bladder functions, not to mention sexual function being the most sought after function for most people suffering from SCI (followed by hand function for quads) and rightfully so.


    In terms of getting us around easier for the time being, make assembling and acquiring wheelchairs like the Galileo and similar models easier and more affordable.

  • #2
    not trying to be a troll here, but.....

    what if amputees thought that way? Like screw your prosthetics, I want my limbs to grow back.

    For me I'd be happy being Locutus of Borg. No nerve pain, no severe muscle weakness/soreness, no recovery time. Just bolt on and go skateboarding/dirtbiking/snowboarding/wakeboarding/man-whoring/robocopping.

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    • #3
      Not wanting prosthetics is like not wanting a wheel-chair. We are all glad to have it it.

      Then is the main problem of an amputee missing that limb, for a sci the situations is far more complex.
      Sure will you be robocopping... about the other stuff I beg to differ.
      Debating on CareCure is like participating in the special-olympics. You may win, but you're still disabled.

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      • #4
        I think we have a better chance with the exoskeleton happening in my lifetime than anything else. Plus I would rather wear that big bulky machine than stand in a standing frame for an hour. I hate doing that. Plus I would be able to do so many more things around the house standing.

        Plus the therapy involved in naturally moving your body not sitting in a chair has to have benefits right?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by cfx View Post
          I think we have a better chance with the exoskeleton happening in my lifetime than anything else. Plus I would rather wear that big bulky machine than stand in a standing frame for an hour. I hate doing that. Plus I would be able to do so many more things around the house standing.

          Plus the therapy involved in naturally moving your body not sitting in a chair has to have benefits right?
          I have to agree...at least I can move around and see different things than the same 4 walls of the room the standing frame is in...besides...I am more than happy to be able to stand up and move using a metal contraption, instead of always sitting in a metal contraption.
          "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot nothing's going to get better. It's not." - Dr. Seuss

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          • #6
            I agree and think there's at least some promise in exoskeletons. Especially since military dollars are being spent on research. There's the chance that they could become much thinner and lighter and more advanced. Sure, I want my actual bodily functions back, but until that happens...

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            • #7
              Paraplegic In "Ironman Suit" Will Take The First Kick In The 2014 World Cup
              Read more at http://www.iflscience.com/technology...Il46iRDj5ob.99

              From the article:

              "We have received $14 million from the Brazilian government over the last two years"


              I would prefer the $14,000,000 be spent on finding a cure for spinal cord injuries!!!

              Also from the article:

              "the research has been met with criticism as some believe that the suit is far from practical and that he is receiving too much of the Brazilian government's research budget, but Nicoleilis defends his work."

              Good to hear he knows some peolple don't want this stuff!

              Paolo
              In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

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              • #8
                I have a friend of a friend who works at ekso bionics. I got to try one of the suits and I have to admit it is pretty cool. In my opinion useful, everyday bionics is a lot more likely in the next 10 years than any sort of cure. If I had the choice between a cure in 10 years or a extra cool terminator suit in 5 I would say screw the suit. However we aren't being faced with that choice. There are billions of dollars in venture capital, 14 million is nothing and people see how to make money as well as help people with Exo technology. We should be supportive of it, the fact is that Exo probably will help us more in the next decade than any "cure", plus the money for stem cell research and exo development doesn't come from one pool, 14M in exo doesn't mean that 10M is taken away from cure research.

                I think we should whole heartily support Exo stuff. There is no such thing as bad publicity, and the Exo technology gets people thinking about SCI. An example at a micro level is at my company, people tend to avoid mentioning my being in a chair. However the Esko bionics thing facinated the people I work with, and during the course of the conversation I got across that whilst terminator suits are cool to me they are just a glorified wheelchair and nothing I view as really exciting. Its 20 or so people who now have a deeper understanding of SCI. The same thing can happen on a macro level.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by t8burst View Post
                  I have a friend of a friend who works at ekso bionics. I got to try one of the suits and I have to admit it is pretty cool. In my opinion useful, everyday bionics is a lot more likely in the next 10 years than any sort of cure. If I had the choice between a cure in 10 years or a extra cool terminator suit in 5 I would say screw the suit. However we aren't being faced with that choice. There are billions of dollars in venture capital, 14 million is nothing and people see how to make money as well as help people with Exo technology. We should be supportive of it, the fact is that Exo probably will help us more in the next decade than any "cure", plus the money for stem cell research and exo development doesn't come from one pool, 14M in exo doesn't mean that 10M is taken away from cure research.

                  I think we should whole heartily support Exo stuff. There is no such thing as bad publicity, and the Exo technology gets people thinking about SCI. An example at a micro level is at my company, people tend to avoid mentioning my being in a chair. However the Esko bionics thing facinated the people I work with, and during the course of the conversation I got across that whilst terminator suits are cool to me they are just a glorified wheelchair and nothing I view as really exciting. Its 20 or so people who now have a deeper understanding of SCI. The same thing can happen on a macro level.
                  Don't you wonder what would happen on the cure front if let's say one resercher willing to work to cure chronic SCI got 14 millions in two years?

                  Paolo
                  In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by t8burst View Post
                    The same thing can happen on a macro level.
                    My fear is that the macro understanding will be something along the lines of robot suit equals problem solved.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Scaper1 View Post
                      My fear is that the macro understanding will be something along the lines of robot suit equals problem solved.
                      Yes! We must react with all the energy & tools we have!

                      Paolo
                      In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
                        Don't you wonder what would happen on the cure front if let's say one resercher willing to work to cure chronic SCI got 14 millions in two years?

                        Paolo
                        Not really, 14 million is not a significant amount of money. I certainly don't think that 14 million dollars would cure SCI, if I did I would go raise it. I also fail to see how the two are linked. There isn't a global "only 14 million dollars will be spent on things SCI related" (remember both stem cells and Exo research have uses other than for people who have SCI).

                        14 million is NOTHING. In 2010 the US spent 6.9 BILLION dollars fighting AIDS, billions on cancer, Alzheimer's. Hell, PETA gets 34M dollars a year, so people care more about dogs and cats than they do us walking because we don't have good PR. Yet people here persist on this horrible path of attacking any non cure related funding, instead of focusing on growing awareness and getting MORE money for everything. Every negative action taken in the name of the SCI community, one I am unwilling member of, makes it less likely that SCI research will grow to large levels.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Scaper1 View Post
                          My fear is that the macro understanding will be something along the lines of robot suit equals problem solved.
                          As opposed to the blizzard of press SCI gets now? Robot Exoskeletons are cool, which gives press to SCI. Whatever it is, it is better than no one talking about SCI at all.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            t8burst - why invest in something that doesn't address bowel/bladder/sexual function? What about tetraplegics? It seems really silly to support an intervention which offers so little to the community.
                            I agree that there's no such thing as bad publicity - I just feel that we should be using the publicity to get more support for regenerative medicine (the stuff that's actually going to cure paralysis).
                            Also, it's hyperbolic to suggest, as fact, that Exo will help us more in the next decade than any 'cure'. I'm assuming you are referring to paraplegics only? A lot of paralysed people I know don't want help with robotic walking, they want help with bladder/bowel/sexual function, pain, sensation etc etc so I really don't see how the Exo is going to help with any of that lot in the next decade. But then, it's not designed to help with any of that lot, which again begs the question of why this intervention is being supported when it offers so little?
                            My intention here is not to be antagonistic. Robotics are really popular right now and people are of course entitled to support them. However, when the dust settles and people realise that they want actual return of function, the fight for regenerative medicine will still be here as it is the only intervention that will eventually repair the spinal cord.

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                            • #15
                              It is interesting that 4 or maybe more companies are spending on the exoskeletons. I know one that is using trials for MS and stroke so SCI is not their sole interest. Today I watched a C6 quad up in the Indego. He and his mother were positively thrilled AND fully understand it is not a cure NOR is it an elimination of his wheelchair. It is all a matter of perspective and some do view them as useful until a cure arrives.

                              I had a fellow object at the raising of about 10 million for a rehabilitation facility who felt it was a waste of dollars that could be spent on a cure. This was in the late seventies. I told him I felt somebody had a duty to provide rehabilitation so those injured could be ready when he delivered the cure. Every time I see him I remind him I am still waiting.

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