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Paralysed patients regain voluntary movement with spinal stimulation

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    http://www.medicalwebtimes.com/read/...o_is_to_blame/

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      Originally posted by rioderbi View Post
      CrabbyShark - they said that they are working on a "pee program" (effectively a frequency and electrode combination) that allows them to relax the sphincter and push the bladder. The guy i spoke with said he peed out about 100ml using this program but its not quite 100% functional yet. Also he said when the device is off he no longer leaks.
      Interesting that he no longer leaks. Is that a permanent change or is it more a left over temporary effect after having the device turned on for a while?

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        I am in contact with a person that got a partial paralysis after she got implanted a Medtronic stimulator. She is mad to hear they are going forward with this epidural stimulation approach as in her experience is evidently dangerous.

        Paolo
        In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

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          Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
          I am in contact with a person that got a partial paralysis after she got implanted a Medtronic stimulator. She is mad to hear they are going forward with this epidural stimulation approach as in her experience is evidently dangerous.

          Paolo
          For those AIS A who are already paralyzed it seems to have helped. Testing more will provide bette data. It may carry longer term risks. It is important to go into these trials with your eyes wide open and know there can be downside.

          Comment


            Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
            I am in contact with a person that got a partial paralysis after she got implanted a Medtronic stimulator. She is mad to hear they are going forward with this epidural stimulation approach as in her experience is evidently dangerous.

            Paolo
            It is clear to me that it is definitively not a good idea to go for such risky surgery..
            Anyway, I guess a company called NeuroEnabling Technologies inc is developping a transcutaneous device. That means no surgeries as the stimulation is passing through the skin, am I correct ??..
            If I understand correctly, two clinical trials are on their way, one for the quads http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01906424 and one for the lombosacral injuries http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01949285
            What do we know about that transcutaneous device ??..
            Thanks
            George

            Comment


              This device has been around a long time. Of course there is risk. It is a device surgically implanted on the spinal cord. The thing is, if done correctly it has a potential to improve what seems to be a vast majority of our population. If I had it done, I'd make sure I was getting a well experienced surgeon.

              There is already a transcutaneous device for epidural stimulation made for testing before surgical implantation on the market for pain management. I think Dr. Burdick's video from CALTECH explains that it improved high performance, able bodied, athletes with informally.

              http://neurorecoverytechnologies.com/press.html

              Also, I read something about cochlear implants promoting audio nerves with gene therapy. This is similar to our issue, so I'd speculate that this should help us. Just a bit of interesting news.

              http://www.technologyreview.com/news...prove-hearing/

              I'm really curious/ excited what is going on out of UCLA with the 17 or so patients that have tried epidural stimulation out of the Edgerton Lab.
              Last edited by Skipow; 29 Apr 2014, 8:58 AM. Reason: Web links

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                Originally posted by George78 View Post
                It is clear to me that it is definitively not a good idea to go for such risky surgery..
                Anyway, I guess a company called NeuroEnabling Technologies inc is developping a transcutaneous device. That means no surgeries as the stimulation is passing through the skin, am I correct ??..
                If I understand correctly, two clinical trials are on their way, one for the quads http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01906424 and one for the lombosacral injuries http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01949285
                What do we know about that transcutaneous device ??..
                Thanks
                George
                From a marketing perspective I think they need to come up with a transcutaneous e-stim that can cost around $10 000 to make lots of money out of this stuff.
                This way 99% of the SCI people will get it (in US and Europe) even if just for "wellness".
                If there are good MKT people behind this I expect that to happen.

                As an example, in the case of Eksobionics I think they didn't have good MKT people as they didn't realize there wasn't a market for the product/cost they want to sell... or maybe is more correct to say that they don't have a product that meet the needs of the market.
                If the Eksoskeleton would cost $10 000 they would sell lots of it even if it is nearly useless. If it were more useful it could cost 20/30K, but that's not the case.

                Paolo
                In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Skipow View Post
                  This device has been around a long time. Of course there is risk. It is a device surgically implanted on the spinal cord. The thing is, if done correctly it has a potential to improve what seems to be a vast majority of our population. If I had it done, I'd make sure I was getting a well experienced surgeon.

                  There is already a transcutaneous device for epidural stimulation made for testing before surgical implantation on the market for pain management. I think Dr. Burdick's video from CALTECH explains that it improved high performance, able bodied, athletes with informally.

                  http://neurorecoverytechnologies.com/press.html

                  Also, I read something about cochlear implants promoting audio nerves with gene therapy. This is similar to our issue, so I'd speculate that this should help us. Just a bit of interesting news.

                  http://www.technologyreview.com/news...prove-hearing/

                  I'm really curious/ excited what is going on out of UCLA with the 17 or so patients that have tried epidural stimulation out of the Edgerton Lab.

                  Skipow, thanks for informing but both Dr. Burdick and Edgerton's works are involving patients in a spinal surgery to put the electrodes on site. Although results are amazing, I personally will not involve myself in such surgery because I find we're on uncertainty results..

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
                    From a marketing perspective I think they need to come up with a transcutaneous e-stim that can cost around $10 000 to make lots of money out of this stuff.
                    This way 99% of the SCI people will get it (in US and Europe) even if just for "wellness".
                    If there are good MKT people behind this I expect that to happen.

                    As an example, in the case of Eksobionics I think they didn't have good MKT people as they didn't realize there wasn't a market for the product/cost they want to sell... or maybe is more correct to say that they don't have a product that meet the needs of the market.
                    If the Eksoskeleton would cost $10 000 they would sell lots of it even if it is nearly useless. If it were more useful it could cost 20/30K, but that's not the case.

                    Paolo
                    Paolo, they will have to pay me to wear an Eksoskeleton..
                    Anyway I'm curious to know what transcutaneous device NeuroEnabling Technologies is using for their trials..
                    As you mentioned, I'm totally ready to spend $10.000 to get that transcutaneous e stim home and begin to use it to stimulate my spinal cord..
                    I'd like to know more about the device NET is using, I don't get how the electricity is getting through skin, muscles, bone of the vertebra to finally reach and stimulate the spinal cord.. I guess the input of electricity will be tremendous and burn skin, may be it will be better and less expensive to directly plug my 2 big toes in the power outlet..

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by crabbyshark View Post
                      Interesting that he no longer leaks. Is that a permanent change or is it more a left over temporary effect after having the device turned on for a while?
                      I interpreted it as an effect that exists when the device is off based on the strengthening of muscles when the device is on. Like his muscles are stronger because he can work them out when the device is on and thus the benefit is leftover

                      Comment


                        http://restorativeneurology.org/wp-c...ation_long.pdf

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by rioderbi View Post
                          I interpreted it as an effect that exists when the device is off based on the strengthening of muscles when the device is on. Like his muscles are stronger because he can work them out when the device is on and thus the benefit is leftover
                          It's been said primitive functions like breathing and bladder function "really, really" want to come back. You're probably correct but it would be interesting to know for sure.

                          Comment


                            Paolo, I'm curious what current potential methods of treatment do you support? Please don't take this as a critical question, I know that you are very aware of research and utilize the scientific method ? but what's top on your list?

                            Comment


                              So they are funded and approved for 8 more patients but have they started recruiting yet or even said what the inclusion criteria is?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Barrington314mx View Post
                                So they are funded and approved for 8 more patients but have they started recruiting yet or even said what the inclusion criteria is?
                                I imagine the 8 have been selected but that can be asked next month... Four of them will be the same as the first four as closely as possible (age, time since injury, etc.). The other four will be tested for response to epidural stimulation on cardio function. This comes from one of the first four patients, Andrew Maes, that had blood pressure issues related to autonomic dysreflexia (AD). When the stim was on his blood pressure normalized.
                                http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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