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    #76
    Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
    I'm not sure if they have to wait for all the funding or not. I can ask on that. I believe they have 5 million already before this campaign. They have a link here to register for participation in the trial at University of Louisville...I'll find out as much as I can at the end of the week.

    http://www.reevebigidea.org/the-research
    Grammy any idea if they're accepting quadriplegics in this trail? And is this the upgraded version of the stimulator?

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by JamesMcM View Post
      In Terms of sexual function are we talking just the ability to gain and sustain an election, or are we talking sensation and ability to reach climax. I understand you probably didn't ask that, I'm just shooting it out there. Without sensation and ability to reach orgasm I can't see that as a big improvement in sexual function, if at all.
      Oh, believe me, it's a question I'm very interested in too. My understanding is that everything works sexually, and that this is also the case for at least one of the other 3 guys.

      eta: I also got to talk with one of the subjects in the StemCells Inc trial that's been going on in Zurich. He says that they're working hard over there to get human epidural trials running. I think the principal investigator would be Gregoire Courtine, who (like Susan Harkema) trained with Reggie Edgerton.

      This is from an article about Courtine's work. It's rats, but it's really good.

      researchers used paralyzed rats whose spinal cords were completely severed. They surgically implanted electrodes into their spines and then placed them on a treadmill, supporting them with a robotic harness. After testing out different pulses and monitoring walking patterns, the researchers discovered that there was a relationship between how high the rat lifted its limbs and pulse frequency. Using this information, the researchers were able to develop an algorithm that constantly monitored the rats’ movement. This data was then fed back into the system which allowed automatic, rapid adjustments in the stimulation in real time, mimicking the way that neurons fire naturally.

      The rats were able to walk 1,000 steps without failure and were even able to climb staircases. “We have complete control of the rat’s hind legs,” EPFL neuroscientist Gr?goire Courtine said in a news release. “The rat has no voluntary control of its limbs, but the severed spinal cord can be reactivated and stimulated to perform natural walking.”

      It is hoped that a human size version of the system could be used in robot-assisted rehabilitation, which may help patients with incomplete spinal cord injuries learn to walk again. The researchers will therefore test their scaled-up system, called Gait Platform, in human trials as early as next summer.
      My friend who's been traveling to Zurich says they're pretty sure that what they have will be an order of magnitude better than what was done in Louisville -- which should not surprise anybody, as that was just a very crude first iteration.
      source
      Last edited by kate; 14 Oct 2014, 9:18 PM.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by kate View Post
        Oh, believe me, it's a question I'm very interested in too. My understanding is that everything works sexually, and that this is also the case for at least one of the other 3 guys.
        Oh my god! So they must've had return to NORMAL sensation there and other places as well?

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          #79
          Originally posted by JamesMcM View Post
          Oh my god! So they must've had return to NORMAL sensation there and other places as well?
          I don't think that's correct, no. I do know that Rob was able to throw away all his pain meds.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by kate View Post
            I don't think that's correct, no. I do know that Rob was able to throw away all his pain meds.
            Of course why would it be, damn got a little excited. Incompletes again of course, still a good thing I am more on the biological front anyways.

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              #81
              Originally posted by JamesMcM View Post
              Of course why would it be, damn got a little excited. Incompletes again of course, still a good thing I am more on the biological front anyways.
              What I find most interesting about the epistim stuff is that they don't really understand the mechanism by which some of these results are happening. They thought that Rob being ASIA B meant there were intact pathways that were somehow activated by the little jolt they were delivering to the lower cord. That's why they went out to find people who were both motor and sensory complete for round 2.

              This is what Reggie Edgerton said about that:
              Now even though the individual with a complete injury may not be able to feel all of this sensory information — normally the sensory information goes to the spinal cord and then it goes to the brain. And the brain may modulate what’s going to happen given the sensory information . . . but in this case, we know that the sensory information can go to the spinal cord and tell the spinal cord what to do.

              In other words, it knows whether the individual is trying to stand or trying to step or whatever it’s trying to do. So again, the important point is the importance of the sensory information that’s coming in, and it can actually serve as the control.
              Source

              In other words, it doesn't seem to matter whether a person is consciously experiencing sensation -- things can work even without that, because whatever "sensation" means inside the cord below the injury, it seems to be enough to cause reaction through intact neural networks. The stimulus doesn't need to get up past the injury site.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by JamesMcM View Post
                Grammy any idea if they're accepting quadriplegics in this trail? And is this the upgraded version of the stimulator?
                Our goal is to demonstrate the effectiveness of epidural stimulation in improving functions such as cardiovascular, sexual and bladder function, as well as the ability to facilitate voluntary movements. The study will also begin to track the impact of epidural stimulation to alleviate the financial burden of SCI on individuals and the healthcare system. Participants are expected to benefit from reduced medication and hospitalization expenses related to treating complications of paralysis. We also hope to reduce the threat of premature death caused by complications like autonomic dysreflexia.

                Study subjects will make an approximate three--‐year commitment to the research after which they will be given the option to keep or remove the stimulator. (They may also opt--‐out atthe conclusion of the first year.) They will have long term follow up after the initial three year commitment. The study subjects must meet the research protocol that is being set up. The sign up form below will go to Harkema. http://louisville.edu/medschool/neur.../harkema/form/

                It's not my understanding yet that they are ready for quads. I understand that they're taking different ages of both men and women with diverse backgrounds. As far as the stimulator goes, they'll still be using the old Medtronic pain 16 electrode array, but they'll try to tweak it a bit.

                It's Reggie Edgerton's group in San Diego that has been working on quad experiments for hands and arms. He's also the one with the company NeuralRecovery Technologies that is working at bringing forth the more sophisticated electrode array of 32 or 34 I believe. We'll hear more about that later in the week.
                http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Curt Leatherbee View Post
                  I've been interested in this sort of thing since I got injured in 1981 I think it is promising hope for the future.
                  I have to disagree with Paolo here. For those of us 25+yrs this could really change our lives for the better, at least for the last third of it. Sure I hope that regenerative therapies continue, but for those of us older - far too late for that.
                  Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

                  T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                    To fund it, we have to raise $15 million, and we already have $5 million of that.
                    This is where I'm disappointed with the Rick Hansen Foundation - they probably have that in reserve easily - or some of their staffers could take a pay freeze. (my bitter sarcasm)
                    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

                    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by kate View Post
                      Oh, believe me, it's a question I'm very interested in too. My understanding is that everything works sexually, and that this is also the case for at least one of the other 3 guys.
                      I'd be very interested in results on women! Especially as I think I'm entering peri-menopause.
                      Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

                      T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by kate View Post
                        What I find most interesting about the epistim stuff is that they don't really understand the mechanism by which some of these results are happening. They thought that Rob being ASIA B meant there were intact pathways that were somehow activated by the little jolt they were delivering to the lower cord. That's why they went out to find people who were both motor and sensory complete for round 2.

                        This is what Reggie Edgerton said about that:
                        Source

                        In other words, it doesn't seem to matter whether a person is consciously experiencing sensation -- things can work even without that, because whatever "sensation" means inside the cord below the injury, it seems to be enough to cause reaction through intact neural networks. The stimulus doesn't need to get up past the injury site.
                        That's fine and dandy, but sensation is crucial I I think all of us want to feel things, warm, cold, textures, different terrains etc allows us to connect better and fully interact with the world around us. Also returned of sexual function is almost entirely based on sensation in my opinion.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by lynnifer View Post
                          I have to disagree with Paolo here. For those of us 25+yrs this could really change our lives for the better, at least for the last third of it. Sure I hope that regenerative therapies continue, but for those of us older - far too late for that.
                          It is positive to have desagrements sometimes, it induce us to dig deeper into things.

                          Paolo
                          In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by kate View Post
                            Oh, believe me, it's a question I'm very interested in too. My understanding is that everything works sexually, and that this is also the case for at least one of the other 3 guys.

                            eta: I also got to talk with one of the subjects in the StemCells Inc trial that's been going on in Zurich. He says that they're working hard over there to get human epidural trials running. I think the principal investigator would be Gregoire Courtine, who (like Susan Harkema) trained with Reggie Edgerton.

                            This is from an article about Courtine's work. It's rats, but it's really good.



                            My friend who's been traveling to Zurich says they're pretty sure that what they have will be an order of magnitude better than what was done in Louisville -- which should not surprise anybody, as that was just a very crude first iteration.
                            source
                            I have been to Zurich a while ago and more recently in Lausanne to visit Courtine's lab. I support Stem Cell Inc. trial and Courtine's planned trial as there will be usefull lessons to learn from both even in case of modest or no recovery at all, but I am afraid some people are expecting way too much from these trials..or maybe I have missed something big.

                            I also wonder.. if it is so good why investors are not covering the full cost? And why isn't the NIH &/or the DOD funding the trial?

                            Paolo
                            In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Howthe paralyzed can regain movement

                              http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/arti...to-stand-again

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Twitter convo with Fehlings.
                                Attached Files
                                Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

                                T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

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