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Dr. Young - Dr. McDonald

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    Dr. Young - Dr. McDonald

    I read the Sept. 1999 abstract on the success Dr. McDonald observed in the lab utilizing ESC's in rat contused spinal cords. Impressive.

    This was nearly 4 years ago. Seems that there has been sufficient time to replicate the results and a least be laying the ground work for a human trial.

    DA, I'm starting to think like you do. . . .

    schmeky, the reason why there has been no progress with that work is because embryonic stem cells are being shut down at the federal and state levels. Wise.


      wcrabtex...whats the excuse for no oeg, nt3, in-1, and receptor blockers human trials?


        Is there a research group/country using hESC's in SCI research? It would make sense to support whoever it is doing something that has considerable merit. Is Barros in Brazil doing this?????????????????


        • #5
          What kind of animal studies were done to justify the activated macrophages trial that is starting at Craig????????????

          If we are just going off of the human data from Israel(33% functional improvement rate - which hardly seems optimized), why can't we do autologous OEG trials in the U.S. based on Lima's work?


            DA, I tried to answer your question in another topic. Wise.

            [This message was edited by Wise Young on 05-25-03 at 05:55 AM.]


              DA, why don't you admit that the Bush government attitude about ESC researh is completely idiot?


              • #8

                Thanks for the info. Weren't OEGs shown effective and safe in rats before 1998?

                Why are further animal studies necessary before human OEG trials begin? I'm not saying to halt animal trials, but run them congruently.

                I haven't seen or heard much evidence that activated macrophages are any more effective on acutes than Lima's OEG procedure is on chronics. The difference - Proneuron driven by profitability perhaps? I don't know.


                  wcrabtex with the exception of the nogo peptide, these therapies were around years before esc. i remember posting on the forum nt3-in1 trials in humans was ready for 1997, the same year esc was discovered. i remember regeneron buying the rights to in-1 then saying they wont develope it for human use. then they began selling medical supplies to the sci community. where was your outrage wcrabtex?
                  nobody likes bush policy on esc but to focus only on esc as the only problem is idiotic, right marcus?
                  their is zero, 0, none, outrage at any therapy footdragging along except for esc. to me that says politics is more important than a cure. so you are right about one thing, sci patient advocate is extremely poor. we as a group are a bunch of losers.


                    marcus bush policy is a huge speed bump. 1. you can remove that speed bump by changing to a pro esc president...i dont see that happening soon. 2. going around the speed bump by using alternative to esc. marcus are you ready to tell me that dr black was a failure and wasted time and money?


                      after years of chatting with dr young, i already know his point of view. i want yours. you can think for yourself right?
                      you say, "At this point we really do not know what will work."
                      why not? in1 goes back to 1989. 14 years and we dont know if it really works. esc 1997 and your fussing about bush. its ok to fuss about bush and his policy on 1997 esc but you seem to ignore 1989 in1. why not fuss about 14 wasted years.

                      you say, "We need to be working towards funding all areas of promising research."

                      then we need to show outrage at ALL AREAS of research when time, money, and effort is wasted;not only with esc.


                        Good thread. A little more enlightening than A.K. Fletcher..

                        Anyway, valid points all. Bill and Wise as Dr.s have a much more birdseye view than most of us.
                        They understand the realities better, imo.

                        DA, Cjo, and any others Yes, we should all be outraged. And since we are not Dr.s we should be targeting our energies towards the one underlying factor that permeates this thread and others like it - money. Raising it, advocating for it, begging, borrowing. Who has the most money to throw at our problem - U.S. Gov't, our politicians who control purse strings. This should be the target of our outrage.

                        Sure, private funding - in the form of Proneuron, Miami Project and others - will move it forward but at what pace?

                        We need big bucks and an aggressive approach regardless of when esc was discovered or IN-1 or anything that sounded promising. That's the past. You can't move forward looking back.

                        We need to test and fund every possible theory that the researchers deem appropriate and potentially inclusive of human clinical trials.

                        No money = no trials = my ass still in the wc.

                        Let's RAGE in the right direction.


                        • #13
                          Agreed, much better thread than Fletch...


                          I think somewhere Dr. Young stated that Lima and/or Hongyun had satisfied the safety issue of a Phase 1 trial. Again, I have to ask how Craig is doing an activated macrophages trial when trials for chronics aren't approved? I'm glad that Craig is doing it, but I don't understand why that trial can procede, but others can't.

                          If I were an SCI clinician, I'd work 8 days a week to try to replicate the culturing of OEGs like they are in Australia. Along with what Phebus pointed out - MONEY - that could be a very effective treatment.

                          I just got a reply from Senator Tim Johnson. He's on the appropriations committee and seems to really be on our side. Now, if we can just get Lieberman in the White House...


                            phebus, researchers have more than enough money to start human trials. ya wanna know where this money is located? on this forum with much of it going overseas.

                            cjo dont be fooled by politicans. he may just want votes for his party;maybe. he can write in money for sci research as pork. im sure he dont hesistate to do that for his state.

                            wcrabtex you are so 20th century. a new procedure to allow organs to be transplanted without matching patients is in trials. the same procedure can be used in sci research. also the albany/st louis trials tranplanted pig cells. your excuses are no excuses to stop trials.

                            We need big bucks and an aggressive approach regardless of when esc was discovered or IN-1 or anything that sounded promising. That's the past. You can't move forward looking back.

                            the past keep repeating itself in sci research.


                            • #15

                              Why is it premature to go to human trials with OEG(over 350 patients treated overseas), but alright to go to trial with activated macrophages(11 patients treated)?

                              I am also concerned with tissue rejection, but the following came from an email from China:
                              Why didn't we use immunosuppressants? The most important reason is that it is unecessary for OEC transplantation. In our trial, the patients who got OEC transplantation more than for one year still improve their neurological function. The second reason is harmful for patients' immunological system. The third reason is that it is very expensive.
                              This isn't my favorite project, but it is one that is returning function in humans today. I support all regenerative therapies, but if OEGs help me get functional recovery back this fall - it will be my favorite until the therapy comes along that allows for complete and massive regeneration.


                              You get your man GWB to make the promises that Lieberman is making and I'll vote for long as he doesn't want me to read his lips.