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    #16
    Sue, how can I talk with you other than these messages? I am limited to 1000 letters and have many more for suggestion. To me, what I have read so far, it sounds like you are trying to take too big of a step forward and there definitely parts of puzzle not ready. Your eyes and brain do not think are running concurrent with what your body yet capable. If you can find the holding point, you can work on it ad attempt to move forward. This is what I am saying in too big of a step forward. You need to have all above the waist ready to move below it. This includes strength. You have mind and body structure of adult and probably strength less than infant in others. Well neurological must be changed to recognize this.

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      #17
      Sorry. I missed the pool. Sue, were you ever in a pool, lying on back and ONLY supported by foam float(s)? NOBODY, NOTHING touching your legs?

      What were you able to do in the pool? What if you closed your eyes and tried to execute something?
      Last edited by rlmtrhmiles; 3 Jun 2013, 7:15 AM.

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        #18
        I was in therapy a little over 1 year ago where they had a company come in and build custom braces for each leg. Foot to groin. No ankle movement. Lockable knee. They wanted me to walk like Frankenstein. Basically I think getting hip area doing things correctly. Would have never had ankle movement with these. They were so heavy and smashed at knees, I got pissed and quit. HOWEVER, since I could not even do the Frankenstein, this was where I somehow came up with idea they were jumping too far ahead in the process. Maybe strength. Maybe neurological. Whatever. This was where I tossed them out the door and moved to do it myself.

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          #19
          Are you working back towards those braces rlmtrhmiles?

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            #20
            HELL NO! On those braces. I was saying that as something was done/tried with me.
            I HATED THEM! They were custom molded. Came in and put stuff on each leag that took shape of leg. Then they went and manufactured the braces. They cost almost $6k. WHAT REALLY SAYING IS braces were even TOO FAR of a jump forward. They did nothing to evaluate strength of leg to even see if I could move with weight of brace.

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              #21
              I could walk in water at parallel bars. Could even walk up and down stars with only assistance of H2O. Did use bars for balance. The walk in water allowed me to identify upper body weight transfers that had to occur. They even had me walking sideways. The water loosened things up. I was then able to work at home to extend what they were doing. A KEY after sitting around forever, you NEED to rebuild strength. PERIOD. No ifs ands or buts. If you do not have strength, you can forget it. Building strength does NOT involve 100lbs or full range-in-motion after sitting so long. Get the neurological working and THEN you can work on the physical PIECE-BY-PIECE. Tough mentally, but it works for me.

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                #22
                I can walk with a walker in house. Can walk to toilet. Turn around. Undo pants and sit down. Get backup. Put all together and walk back to wheelchair. Key for me was position of upper body related to lower when doing many. Your head weighs a lot. You need to know where the "midpoint vertical line" of your body is when trying to do this so that you have your upper body weight is in the correct location to for example stand back up. This is what I think is the kind of re-learning.

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                  #23
                  I'm incomplete so it's different, but I can walk much better with the braces, use less energy. I am on my second set now and breaking them in is beating me up. My legs don't work well so if mechanical aids keep me upright, then so be it. I understand jummping the gun. I pushed to get into OT as fast as I could. They had me pushing carts loaded with weight, climbing stairs, etc. I was working my butt off, but my PT realized I should work on gait and balance first.

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                    #24
                    Nothing wrong with the braces if they work. I just thought therapy and whoever were the people made this decision, it was thought out poorly. Especially in regard to walking. People did nothing into abdominal/hip area evaluation, before even moving to legs. 1 hug problem I always had standing upright was my ass sticking out way too far. This was taking away from bone structure providing the assistance to stand upright. Yeah I had massive biceps. That I finally determined was nonsense. I put into my mind and worked on I had to work on doing things "correctly" before I decided to attempt to increase amount/distance. If doing things incorrect, I think you can teach yourself that and it is difficult to undo. That is why I say started doing things with eyes closed. Eyes I think were providing incorrect data to brain.

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                      #25
                      I seriously think eyes can end up providing incorrect data to brain. ESPECIALLY over time, simply because your eyes have seen sitting in wheelchair for long time.

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                        #26
                        Your profile says C7 'heal'. What is 'heal'? My quads rated a level 5 on both legs with some hip flexion and ankle flexion/extension. My problem is in the mid to lower trunk and fingers. Used FES to up strength in my left side trunk but right isn't there. I can feel it but there are no working neurons to work with. And I could write a book on visualization work. In the pool I could walk using a float noodle for balance by the end.

                        At some point the vast majority of us need a biological 'fix'. If it were all mind over matter more of us would not need respirators or need to deal with contracted hands. I try to stay away from mirrors that are directed anywhere but my face while doing my hair and make up.

                        Enjoy reading up on how incomplete SCIs are slowly showing signs of post-polio syndrome.
                        Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow."

                        Disclaimer: Answers, suggestions, and/or comments do not constitute medical advice expressed or implied and are based solely on my experiences as a SCI patient. Please consult your attending physician for medical advise and treatment. In the event of a medical emergency please call 911.

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                          #27
                          I was in the hospital 5-1/2 years before got out. With all mess I had, they destroyed my hearing. My mother told me can walk. Then tells md may need a cane. By time I got out of hospital, was so weak I could not eve transfer in and out of chair without help. Was ALWAYS told ankles never work. With no hearing, mother was always mey ears. No idea if what she said was true or not. She was always telling ne "bruised". Never told complete or incomplete. She always told me she was told I can walk. Over years, her message turned into "hope." I was so f*cking pissed. Never, ever had communication with doctors because they screwed ears up. Go to next message.

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                            #28
                            Therapy always told me no walk. I was so confused. All I did in therapy was use the F-word. 2+ years ago I started my own therapy routine at home. Only devices were walker, hand weights and a band. With diligent I turned upper body into "Hercules." Then started downward. 1st, I HAD to get the damn fluid out of legs. I bought athletic CEP running compression socks. They are worn from the time I get done shower in morning until I go to bed. #1 - this ELIMINATED FLUID BUILDUP. I was under impression, if I can feel myself massaging my ass, then something is there. I tried just flex ass cheeks. NO did not work. Mentally, I sure thought I was doing things correctly. I just figured bone. body muscle structure WAY TOO big for the strength I had from lying around for 10 years. Go to next message.

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                              #29
                              If things seemed working but way to weak, then I started doing exercises of legs using my arms. Continued with this, I also did same exercise on bed without using arms. KEY here was I did NOT care about range in motion while on bed. I worried about sensation. If sensation was there, I could work on strength. I did this type of approach all the way down to toes never worrying about hoe long it would take. Only thing worried about was if I can do it, I will get better, quicker with practice. I did tons stretching. start being supported by wall or furniture and finally when stretched enough I could do it unsupported. A huge thing here was sit on floor with legs extended flat at 90 degree. Would lie on stomach and support upper body on elbows. Essentially reverse arch spinal column and stretch al lot of muscles on front of body. Next message.

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                                #30
                                From there, before standing I figure I need to be able to do it on my knees. Fro lying on floor, lets see if I can get just up to sitting on legs with knees bent. Essentially sitting on the legs/feet. This was TOUGH. First I got to doing this by holding on. Eventually got to doing this without holding. All along unto this point in body moving downward from where I started describing muscles appear working and slowly building more and more strength. I still did not give a shit about walking or not. By now,I know the walking was purely because of upper body strength, NOT because of correct execution, Now I am at the feet. This was something was always told would never work. WELL. Next message.

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