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  • #61
    Lol, thanks Nowhere Man. I appreciate your effort to explain.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
      Ok. I'm going to tell you, but please try to remember it in the future. I've repeated this many times. I see you are new so I understand your confusion. When a person has an acute spinal cord injury, their original, beautiful work-of-nature spinal cord is still present. But over the course of a few weeks, their spinal cord literally dies. The tracts that go from the brain to the muscles (simplified) get cut off at the injury site. Above the injury site the axons are still there, but below they die and get disposed of by your body. Sensory tracts that go from muscles to the brain, get cut off at injury site. Below the injury site they are still there, but above the injury site they die and get disposed of. So motor tracts will need to regenerate from the injury site all the way down the entire cord, making exits at the right place. As you know different levels of spinal cord control different muscles. This could be a meter or so in length. The sensory tract needs to regenerate from injury site all the way up to the brain. Could be a meter or more in length. Not only would they need to grow these long distances but they would need to reconnect with their targets or close to. Ex: your foot sensory axon needs to grow to the precise spot in your brain that feels your foot, or at least close.

      OR, for acute SCI, they can keep the spinal cord from dying! They can preserve the spinal cord, keeping the beautiful and complex circuitry in place. That's what the Invivo scaffold does. It preserves. It does NOT rebuild.

      So NO, you cannot re-cut a chronic SCI to make it acute again. Our circuitry is already dead and disconnected by many inches - meter in length.

      However, if a treatment causes axon regeneration (none yet do in a significant amount), then recutting the spinal cord MAY help. May not. No one knows because it hasn't been done that I know of. For a cervical injury it might not be worth the lost function (from recutting) to get what shitty regeneration a treatment may offer.

      A regenerative treatment will never come close to the original spinal cord that only an acute SCI protective treatment can save.

      Make sense?

      I really wish Dr. Wise would add this question, and answer himself, to the 10 most frequently asked questions thread.

      And that is why for complete injuries I say our bodies are "pretty well" dead below injury site. Chronic treatment very unlikely, hundred percent basically impossible... Now where's the nearest "accessible" bridge lol.

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      • #63
        very very disappointing for chronics. Near to dying news is this that no treatment for chronics.

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        • #64
          Yes full recovery of pre-sci function is basically impossible for complete sci. But neuroprosthetics have huge potential to bring back significant function, that may even feel real. Plus, a biological treatment may one day restore some useful function. The basic research is not there yet and that is why it needs to be the main focus. Just finding the right gene or two to turn on or off could make the world?s difference on how many and far axons can grow.

          If we want return of function we need to keep our focus on the labs not human trials. We've got to accept reality of our injury, the reality of the current state of research, and put what little money we have into the right projects. I strongly suggest that anyone who wants to get function back to support U2FP. You can learn a lot and help fund the most important projects for chronic "cure". It's not just layman SCI deciding which projects to fund, they have a scientific advisory board with I think at least 4 scientists.

          Living in a fantasy land where you think we'll be cured in 5 years helps no one.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
            Yes full recovery of pre-sci function is basically impossible for complete sci. But neuroprosthetics have huge potential to bring back significant function, that may even feel real. Plus, a biological treatment may one day restore some useful function. The basic research is not there yet and that is why it needs to be the main focus. Just finding the right gene or two to turn on or off could make the world?s difference on how many and far axons can grow.

            If we want return of function we need to keep our focus on the labs not human trials. We've got to accept reality of our injury, the reality of the current state of research, and put what little money we have into the right projects. I strongly suggest that anyone who wants to get function back to support U2FP. You can learn a lot and help fund the most important projects for chronic "cure". It's not just layman SCI deciding which projects to fund, they have a scientific advisory board with I think at least 4 scientists.

            Living in a fantasy land where you think we'll be cured in 5 years helps no one.
            And then important things like this can happen...
            http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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            • #66
              That is encouraging.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
                Yes full recovery of pre-sci function is basically impossible for complete sci. But neuroprosthetics have huge potential to bring back significant function, that may even feel real. Plus, a biological treatment may one day restore some useful function. The basic research is not there yet and that is why it needs to be the main focus. Just finding the right gene or two to turn on or off could make the world?s difference on how many and far axons can grow.

                If we want return of function we need to keep our focus on the labs not human trials. We've got to accept reality of our injury, the reality of the current state of research, and put what little money we have into the right projects. I strongly suggest that anyone who wants to get function back to support U2FP. You can learn a lot and help fund the most important projects for chronic "cure". It's not just layman SCI deciding which projects to fund, they have a scientific advisory board with I think at least 4 scientists.

                Living in a fantasy land where you think we'll be cured in 5 years helps no one.
                Btw when you responded to me you didn't address what you thought of Dr.Courtine work with the epidural implant that causes very little inflammation or tissue damage , The device also uses Neuroprosthetics in conjunction with epidural stimulation (which has been shown to produce modest recovery in human alone).

                Pretty interesting video with the rat on the treadmill, able to handle stairs and actually jump After A severed cord.

                I don't agree with you that human trials should be disregarded, I am very interested in Dr Dai Jianwus work doing great now in China. Didn't Just have good results in rats but also dogs. Now Iam no scientist but that could mean the neural are integrating well with the collegen scaffolding (is the most abundant protein in our body) allowing the cells to survive and work at the injury, rather then just cluelessly dissipating in the body. This is important to come quickly many of us need that. Even minor recovery could be enough to make a dependent individual, relatively independent. Living a dependent life is not an acceptable Way for a human to live, especially at a young age. More importantly that shouldn't be the standard or even idea of a solution for a severe injury.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                  And then important things like this can happen... [IMG]/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif[/IMG]
                  This is the best cure news that I've heard in a long while! Real scientist getting real NIH funding.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    ...
                    "Recent Developments

                    As mentioned, InVivo used the run-up in the stock price as an opportunity to raise capital. The capital raise was priced at $1.50, a substantial discount to market. On the positive side, the Stock Purchase Agreement is straightforward with no kickers (i.e. - warrants). Prior guidance by the company indicated that there was sufficient cash to carry the company into 2016, so, the sudden capital raise was somewhat of a surprise.
                    There are two schools of thought here. Either the company wanted to build a cash runway to get them through the pivotal trial. Or, the cash is needed to fund their second program and initial trial, which will include combining neural stem cells with the scaffold. As positive as the scaffold only trial is going, preclinical results suggest scaffold plus neural stem cells is substantially more efficacious than scaffold only. I tend to lean toward the latter hypothesis as a reason for the capital raise at this juncture. However, in either case, the cash will be well-utilized and should drive value and be accretive for the company."
                    ...
                    http://seekingalpha.com/article/2875...a2ec9&uprof=16

                    I am skeptical, but I give INVIVO the benefit of the doubt.

                    Paolo
                    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

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                    • #70
                      Jordan is one the first patient's to take part in the recent INVIVO trials.

                      Jordan's Journey - SCI Recovery

                      http://www.gofundme.com/fytic4
                      "I'm manic as hell-
                      But I'm goin' strong-
                      Left my meds on the sink again-
                      My head will be racing by lunchtime"

                      <----Scott Weiland---->

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by ineedmyelin View Post
                        Jordan is one the first patient's to take part in the recent INVIVO trials.

                        Jordan's Journey - SCI Recovery

                        http://www.gofundme.com/fytic4


                        I've exchanged couple of emails with Jesi, a second patient involved in the trial. Invited her over to share her experience with scaffolding that was implanted into her but she wasn't too eager to share with all of us on this forum. She told me that Jordan is improving a lot although I didn't get any details. She might join in couple of months.

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                        • #72
                          The invivo website has been redone and has more indepth information
                          "That's not smog! It's SMUG!! " - randy marsh, southpark

                          "what???? , you don't 'all' wear a poop sac?.... DAMNIT BONNIE, YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THE POOP SAC!!!! "


                          2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
                          Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature

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                          • #73
                            Hope it works out for them
                            Originally posted by lunasicc42 View Post
                            The invivo website has been redone and has more indepth information

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                            • #74
                              I don't know if this has been posted yet I didn't through the entire thread. but for those of you watching invivo initial trials 4 acute, here is jordan fallis progress YouTube video. I don't think this should be possible but who knows. pretty cool though

                              https://youtu.be/dIKden24ErU

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by PC720 View Post
                                I don't know if this has been posted yet I didn't through the entire thread. but for those of you watching invivo initial trials 4 acute, here is jordan fallis progress YouTube video. I don't think this should be possible but who knows. pretty cool though

                                https://youtu.be/dIKden24ErU
                                Here's one talking about progress for the first two people so far (both very acute)... LINK
                                Last edited by GRAMMY; 05-15-2015, 01:34 AM. Reason: spelling
                                http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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