Cold Laser - Is it the same as Laserpuncture?

[cindyg]

Dr. Bohbot Laserpuncture, is it the same as Cold Laser? Cold Laser is now FDA approved and a friend of mine thinks it might help SCI.

Dr. Young, do you have any thoughts on this? Or does anyone have any experience with Cold Laser regarding anything medical?

Thanks

[Wise Young]

cindyg,

In my opinion, there is not enough known about laser acupuncture to speculate about the mechanisms of its claimed effects. The term "cold laser" refers to low power lasers that do not emit light of sufficient power to heat tissue. I think that most laser acupuncture devices use low power and therefore could be called "cold lasers". Because of their low power, such lasers shold be safe but also unlikely to have any biological effects.

While there are many reports in the medical literature claiming that low power laser application ot acupuncture points can change blood flow, reduces pain, and even alter hormonal levels, I am skeptical that these effects can be attributed to any known biological mechanism and may well be psychologically mediated. There is more data suggesting potential effects of mechanical or electrical acupuncture but, despite the widespread application of mechanical or electroacupuncture in countries like China, I have not found any credible scientific evidence of their beneficial effects on spinal cord injury.

I am sorry but this is just my view.

Wise.

[cindyg]

Thank you, Dr. Young. I am very skeptical about this cold laser being of any benefit - I should specify in SCI. My friend has been so anxious for months for me to meet these doctors, I will go listen and ask questions. I want to understand why it wouldn't hurt me neurologically, if directed at my CNS.

After the Neuralyn thing, I am really skeptical about everything. Utah is geographically gorgeous, but after a few years of living in MLM World Headquarters, I've about decided that Utah is the land of scams. Buyer beware.

Thanks again.

[This message was edited by cindyg on Nov 13, 2002 at 08:50 PM.]

[albert bohbot]

Dear cindyg,

First, I would like to thank Wise for giving his moderate and objective opinion, as usual, and I respect it.

Concerning Cold Laser, you need to know the laser I am using is unique worldwide. It is built according to parameters I set. It is manufactured by one of the most famous French engineering school, the Ecole Nationale Superieure des Arts et Metiers (ENSAM or Arts and Craft Engineering School). A new generation of laser is being realized, it should be ready by December, its delivery has been delayed for some technical problems. The laser is financed by the French State through the Agence Nationale pour la Valorisation de la Recherche (ANVAR or National Agency for the Development of Research).

The first scientific study on laserpuncture was realized in hospital from 1987 to 1992. It was the Hopital Universitaire Jules Courmont, Lyon-Sud, rheumatology department. 700 persons were treated in a double-blind protocol versus placebo. We obtained amazing results : hardly 2% of improvement for the placebo group compared to 80% of long-term improvement for the group really treated. Several objective parameters were used:
Pain evaluation on the pain scale before and after treatment,
Blood tests.
ANVAR financed the protocol.

Recently a medical thesis has been written by Dr Jame-Collet, entitled: From Dermatom to Pibu: the Link is Laserpuncture: Clinical Applications through Paraplegia and Quadriplegia.

The next protocol is being set up with the Tel Aviv University and Dr Shimon Rochkind. This protocol will combine laser with cell tissue transplantation (cost: $35 625 for the first year). At the moment we are looking for the funds. It is obvious that if positive results are observed, the psychological improvement argument will disappear through a scientific study and not a plain stand.

Concerning the effects of Cold Laser, results have been observed, see the article French Connection written by Dr Laurance Johnston (for info you can check out the article on his website www.healingtherapies.info): In spite of this image, low-energy lasers are finding more therapeutic applications (see Journal Alternative and Complementary Medicine, Vol. 5, Number 2, 1999, pp.177-188). They represent a noninvasive, painless mechanism for biostimulation that does not burn tissue. Scientists speculate that laser stimulation improves cellular respiration and function and DNA and RNA repair.You can also read my abstract and PowerPoint presented at the Brescia congress in Italy on my website.

It is obvious laserpuncture is at its beginnings, encouraging results have already been observed in paraplegics and quadriplegics, but they always need to be proved and recognized through official scientific studies.

Today we can wonder if the laserpuncture results are only psychological, why do we have more and more inquiries? And when patients are back in their country and have new evaluations, why do their consultants see objective progress? There are two solutions:
Spinal cord injury comes from a psychosomatic origin and I dont think it is ;-)
Laserpuncture results have not been biologically explained yet


Tie-break: is the biologic proof the right referential?

I hope I answered your question and I am at your disposal for any information. If by chance you have Discovery Channel, a report concerning the clinic will run around Nov. 20th on Discovery Health.

Its the first time an alternative medicine has had so many scientific proposals to show its value.

Albert
www.laserponcture.net

[Laurance]

Laser acupuncture

This is in response to the following statement by Dr. Young "While there are many reports in the medical literature claiming that low power laser application of acupunture points can change blood flow, reduces pain, and even alter hormonal levels, I am skeptical that these effects can be attributed to any known biological mechanism and may well be psychologically mediated."

There is, in fact, a fair amount of data in support of laser therapy or laser acupunture therapy. For example, Dr. Margaret Naeser a Boston University School of Medicine Research Professor and Depart of Veterans Affairs investigator has shown through rigorously designed clinical trials that laser acupunture can effectively treat carpal tunnel syndrome (summarized on www. healingtherapies.info, also Arch Phys Med Rehabil Vol, July 2002) It isn't psychological unless you believe that the scientific method only works for preconceived, acceptable paradigms of science. Dr. Naeser believes that these laser acupunture effects are mediated through a number of mechanisms including augmented production of a key energy metabolite called ATP, increased levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin, decreased inflammation, and improved local blood circulation. Other work suggests that laser therapy can stimulate stem-cell differentiation.

Laser acupunture therapy represents an energy-based therapy, an approach to healing which has been widely ignored by contemporary medicine but, without question, will be a key component of the medicine of the future. Given Dr. Young's pioneering, but largely forgotten, work early in his career, he clearly understands the paramount role of electromagnetic mechanisms in influencing or biochemistry and regenerative potential.

It is important to note in these discussions, that studies carried out by Congress and others indicate that only 10-20% of our medicine has a scientific basis. This does not exclude SCI medicine, i.e., most of our routinely accepted SCI medicine does not have a scientific basis. We have to be careful when we condemn a new, a strange-sounding or foreign-sounding therapy because the criteria we use will end up condemning most of therapies that we blindly accept without question. Truly, is it double blind or double standard?

[Rand]

Cindg

As for your question, I think the main difference is the Operator. Dr. Bohbot has many more years of expereance with Laser puncture then any one else. I have a C6 complete, and tryed it in June for two weeks. I had some great results.The most definite was after one month my chest muscels started working to help breathing. I had complete muscle test done at Craig Hospital the first week of May and they were not working then.
Bohbot has a busy clinic, and most of them are returning patient who are getting better!! If your interested go to his web site and ask for a list of patiens to email.

Rand

[Wise Young]

Laurance and Albert, I am sorry to sound skeptical. As I told Laurance recently, I don't understand the mechanism and therefore have trouble believing. Wise.

[albert bohbot]

Dear Wise,

Since we met in Brescia, you know I dont refuse to debate. If youre willing to, Im ready to make an experimental protocol with you according to your rules and parameters in the University youll choose.

Proceeding in such a way, maybe one day we will understand all the mechanisms explaining why laserpuncture gives results. We may also understand other mechanisms allowing us to progress quicker in the knowledge of SCI and create new tools for analysis, and gives us food for thought. What do you think?

Albert

[Curt Leatherbee]

I'll be the first Volunteer

I am open to new ideas at this point. My body is in great shape, however the t-4 complete Paralysis has not changed one single bit since may 9, 1981. This would be a good test. I have recent MRI Results too of an upper and lower spine, so an MRI could be done after a year of laser puncture to see if there were any changes.

"Life is about how you
respond to not only the
challenges you're dealt but
the challenges you seek...If
you have no goals, no
mountains to climb, your
soul dies".~Liz Fordred

[albert bohbot]

Curtis,

We have 400 people on the waiting list, would you like to be 401?

Albert

[Curt Leatherbee]

lol

eom

"Life is about how you
respond to not only the
challenges you're dealt but
the challenges you seek...If
you have no goals, no
mountains to climb, your
soul dies".~Liz Fordred

[Laurance]

Laser Therapy

For Dr. Young's reference, a plethora of potential physiological mechanisms are summarized on www.erchonia.com. Although I do not know details, the listed mechanisms include 1) "633 nm rescue of axotomized neurons" and 2) affects "the electrical activity and morphology in both severely injured peripheral nerves." Sonds intriguing! Erchonia is an Arizona company that markets a FDA-approved low level laser device.

There are a lot of studies and considerable anecdotal information that suggests that laser therapy may have considerable potential when it comes to SCI

[Wise Young]

Laurence, a phenomenon is not the same as mechanism. I do accept the presence of a therapeutic effect without a well-understood mechanism. For example, for many centuries, it was known that aspirin will reduce fever in people but the mechanism (which by the way is due to inhibition of an enzyme called cyclo-oxygenase) was not well understood. On the other hand, I think that therapeutic effects of aspirin and other cyclo-oxygenase inhibitors have been documented in clinical trials.

After reviewing many studies that involve lower-power laser, I must say that I am not convinced by the data presented that there are biological effects of low power lasers. There have been very few rigorous double-blind randomized studies of laser therapy. While there have been convincing studies suggesting that mechanical or electrical acupuncture have biological effects on pain and spasticity, I am not aware of any study that show significant functional restorative effects of these traditional acupuncture methods in spinal cord injury.

As you know, acupuncture is widely practiced in China and they have the greatest expertise and history of acupuncture use of any country in the world. If acupuncture had such beneficial effects, it would be widely used in China to restore function to people with spinal cord injury. I am not sure that laser acupuncture would be any better than traditional mechanical or electrical acupuncture practiced by experts in China.

Wise.

[cindyg]

Thank you all for your answers and input

But unfortunately my brain doesn't follow lengthy articles and discussions. I was the lucky recipient of a slight brain injury with my SCI in '84. Took me almost 7 years to learn to count beyond 3 again, and I struggle with it even now when I'm tired. As I age, I think my comprehension and memory skills are worsening too. I just kinda thought maybe I should explain a little why sometimes I have NO clue what you people are talking about. But I fake it good, huh?

So anyway, I take it then the answer is no, they are not the same?

Thanks,
Cindy

[Wise Young]

cindyg,

I think that "cold laser" and "low-powered laser" are probably referring to the same technology. Most of the lasers used today for acupuncture are "cold laser".

Wise.