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    A Word from Dr. Lima

    Dear Allen:

    A publication now must be done on preliminary results, since the study is going and we are optimizing the technique. So we are preparing a publication on a SCI magazine for the moment.
    What I can tell you is that we have positive results in ALL patients . However just an exceptional evolution of a patient , like walking again, without any help would justify , in my opinion , a preliminary publication, now.
    Of course that I will support such a petition. However I must remind you that with our method we furnished not just OECs but also stem cells, Schwann cell, etc.
    I am trying at this precise moment to " push" such clinical trials in USA , with a group of USA scientists, clinics, and SCI interested people.


    PS: How the hell do you have an MRI from one of my patients at your site :> ).


    Best regards

    Carlos Lima, MD

    Dear Sir,

    Perhaps you remember me. My name is Allen Krupar. I have written to you a couple of times about your very exciting research with OEG. I understand you are getting ready to publish. I am very interested in your work. In fact, the potential of OEG influenced me to begin a petition to move OEG into human clinical trials in the United States and around the world. You might be interested to visit my website: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm (you're a regular topic of conversation there)

    Your input would be highly valued. In fact, if you have a statement of any sort that you would like to make, it would be greatly appreciated. For example, I'm sure many people would like to know when exactly you are going to publish and in which journal.
    Information about the progress you are making in Portugal would be very exciting.

    Thank you very much for the work you are doing and I look forward to hearing from you.

    Sincerely,

    Allen Krupar
    e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
    web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm
    Allen Krupar
    e-mail: petition(NO SPAM)@cordtalk.org
    web site: http://www.cordtalk.org/oeg/

    ~~See You On the Dark Side of the Moon http://www.cordtalk.org/darkside.jpg

    Cleveland Rocks!!

    #2
    A Word from Dr. Lima

    One of the members of our mailing list have just forwarded to me an answer of Dr Lima and I think it will interest everyone....
    So, here it is...! [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

    Marie-Joëlle
    http://wwww.paratetra.net
    mailing list :http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/paratetra
    --------------------------------------------
    Dear Mr. Surace:


    As I promised some months ago I com to update you with the actual sate of our clinical trail.

    We have performed surgery in 7 patients ( the last 10 days ago)

    Except for one ( that have 2 cavities and we just fill one) all have some sort of positive recovery (sensoria and motor) The worst is a patient with 6 cms of lesion and in fact we are concluding that his method should apply to less than 2 to 3 cms cavities. The best is a girl with more than 4 years of lesion , operated 3 months ago and that have voluntary control in almost all the leg muscles but with little strenght ( 1 and 2) that we trying to understand and improve .
    I am trying to forward this method in USA and already have cooperation with some centers there. We already prove it is a very safe and feasible approach to SCI patients.

    So, that´s all for the moment

    Best regards

    Carlos Lima, MD

    Comment


      #3
      What a Rush!!!!

      What a Rush!!!

      Tell everybody about The OEG Petition. It's going international very soon!

      Check-in often: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm

      Allen Krupar
      e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
      web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm
      Allen Krupar
      e-mail: petition(NO SPAM)@cordtalk.org
      web site: http://www.cordtalk.org/oeg/

      ~~See You On the Dark Side of the Moon http://www.cordtalk.org/darkside.jpg

      Cleveland Rocks!!

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks Al and MJKL.
        http://justadollarplease.org/

        2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member

        "You kids and your cures, why back when I was injured they gave us a wheelchair and that's the way it was and we liked it!" Grumpy Old Man

        .."i used to be able to goof around so much because i knew Superman had my back. now all i've got is his example -- and that's gonna have to be enough."

        Comment


          #5
          Al Bundy:
          What a Rush!!!

          Tell everybody about The OEG Petition. It's going international very so
          Be sure that's already done for Europe....!!!
          [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

          Marie-Joëlle

          Comment


            #6
            Al ............

            Dr. Lima will be spending some time with Will
            Ambler's group in November. This is a snowball
            that will pick up speed very rapidly.It would be
            interesting to know whereelse Dr. Lima will
            be visiting in the U.S.???Possibly Miami???

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks Al and MJKL for keeping us updated! The results sound very encouraging so far.

              Comment


                #8
                I have some additional info.The recovery of the woman with the most progress is very quickly(at least within 3 months, maybe already earlier) but she was T8.The last patient they've operated was 6,5 years post and 32 year old.So they are very curious how much he will recover because he is the oldest person(they said that the younger the more and better cells are available in the mucosa) and has the oldest injury from all patients so far.And all patients, except one, were complete injuries.

                [This message was edited by pecla on Oct 27, 2002 at 10:58 PM.]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Mr. Bundy:

                  Do you understand the difference between OEGs and Olfactory Mucosa? Dr. Lima stressed the difference, but you continue pointing to his results with mucosa as justification for conducting an OEG-only clinical trial. Therefore, some might support such a trial expecting benefits (and results) similar to reports of olfactory mucosa usage in animals and humans (such as Dr. Lima's results to date). Your presentation of these avenues unintentionally suggests the two are the same, or the benefits of one are available through the other, which is far from being the case. The misrepresentation of Dr. Lima's valuable work is not fair to him, and it's not the best interests of the SCI Community you hope to help.

                  By all means promote an OEG clinical trial, or better yet, promote a fully-informed, well-run olfactory mucosa trial, or do both. But please don't confuse the two.

                  Btw, your determination, energy, and creativity are an inspiration!

                  James Kelly
                  James Kelly

                  Comment


                    #10
                    difference between OEG's and olfactory mucosa ?

                    James Kelly , i am not a highly educated SCI research advocate like you . could you please explain to me the difference between OEG's and olfactory mucosa . in my limited understanding of the subject i thought OEG [olfactory ensheathing glial] cells were the name of the cells used in the proceedure and that the mucosa was one of the places these cells were sourced from . part of a post from DR. Young quote ''The major issue that must be resolved is the source of OEG for transplantation. Several sources have been demonstrated to be feasible: adult olfactory bulb (autograft), adult olfactory mucosa (autograft), fetal olfactory bulb (heterograft), human cadaver olfactory bulb (herograft), and porcine fetal olfactory bulb (xenograft). ''unquote . to the best of my knowledge for the OEG trial in Brisbane mucosa was the source of OEG's used there .reading Dr. Limas post i interpret what he is saying to mean he is using other cells [stem cells and Schwann cells ] in a cocktail containing OEG's .no where do i see him mention mucosa.


                    thank you
                    dogger

                    [This message was edited by dogger on Oct 28, 2002 at 03:49 AM.]
                    Every day I wake up is a good one .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      "This sounds like a job for Superman!"

                      "This sounds like a job for Superman!"

                      Allen Krupar
                      e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
                      web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm
                      Allen Krupar
                      e-mail: petition(NO SPAM)@cordtalk.org
                      web site: http://www.cordtalk.org/oeg/

                      ~~See You On the Dark Side of the Moon http://www.cordtalk.org/darkside.jpg

                      Cleveland Rocks!!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hello Dogger:

                        I will be happy to share my understanding of the differences between Olfactory Mucosa and OEGs, although I am not "a highly trained research advocate." I apologize if I've presented myself as such, because it simply isn't true, and the result of doing so would only hurt my effectiveness in promoting cures for us all. However, neither do I apologize for doing my best to understand and make sense of the many issues that stand between my present condition and being cured...and doing my best to promote The Cure based on this understanding. Many others, including Will, Sue, Allen, Mike, David, Paul, etc., are doing the same and more! Perhaps our combined efforts will lead to success? I hope so!

                        Olfactory Mucosa is a tissue sample made up of many cell types, including several with regenerative potentials...with OEGs among them. OEGs, on the other hand, are a single cell type, or class of cells (OEGs may be harvested from several sources). OEGs reportedly promote axon growth under certain circumstances and remyelination. However, in addition to providing a source of OEGs, a neural stem cell, and two progenitor cells, the mucosa itself apparently acts as an extracellular scaffolding able to integrate with injured spinal stumps (the exposed ends of broken axons) and support axon growth either initiated by OEGs, or by growth factors secreted by the mucosa's stem cells or progenitors. Also, since Olfactory Mucosa supplies a neural stem cell type and two neural progenitors, it has a potential to replace neurons that OEGs by themselves can't offer. And finally, the following papers claim the olfactory system retains the ability to regenerate at a robust embryonic rate throughout the adult life. Their authors attribute this ability to the combined effect of the mucosa's stem cells, progenitors, and OEGs.

                        Possibly for some applications OEGs-only might be more effective than mucosa implantaion (for remyelinating MS-damaged cords once the cause of disease is removed, for example). And for others Olfactory Mucosa might be preferred. But the two should not be confused.

                        Here's what I base this opinion on.

                        Lu J, Feron F, Mackay-Sim A, Waite PM. Olfactory ensheathing cells promote locomotor recovery after delayed transplantation into transected spinal cord. Brain. 2002 Jan;

                        Perry C, Mackay-Sim A, Feron F, McGrath J. Olfactory neural cells: an untapped diagnostic and therapeutic resource. The 2000 Ogura Lecture. Laryngoscope. 2002 Apr;

                        Roisen FJ, Klueber KM, Lu CL, Hatcher LM, Dozier A, Shields CB, Maguire S. Adult human olfactory stem cells. Brain Res. 2001 Jan 26;

                        Sacerdote de Lustig E, Josiowicz AD. [Olfactory mucosa: a continuous source of neurons] Medicina (B Aires). 2001;61(5 Pt 1):

                        Calof AL, Mumm JS, Rim PC, Shou J. The neuronal stem cell of the olfactory epithelium. J Neurobiol. 1998 Aug;36(2):190-205.

                        Huard JM, Youngentob SL, Goldstein BJ, Luskin MB, Schwob JE. Adult olfactory epithelium contains multipotent progenitors that give rise to neurons and non-neural cells. J Comp Neurol. 1998 Nov 2;

                        Sicard G, Feron F, Andrieu JL, Holley A, Mackay-Sim A. Generation of neurons from a nonneuronal precursor in adult olfactory epithelium in vitro. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1998 Nov 30;

                        Goldstein BJ, Fang H, Youngentob SL, Schwob JE. Transplantation of multipotent progenitors from the adult olfactory epithelium. Neuroreport. 1998 May 11;

                        Feron F, Mackay-Sim A, Andrieu JL, Matthaei KI, Holley A, Sicard G. Stress induces neurogenesis in non-neuronal cell cultures of adult olfactory epithelium. Neuroscience. 1999 Jan;88(2)

                        Zehntner SP, Mackay-Sim A, Bushell GR. Differentiation in an olfactory cell line. Analysis via differential display. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1998 Nov 30;

                        Lu J, Ashwell K. Olfactory ensheathing cells: their potential use for repairing the injured spinal cord. Spine. 2002 Apr 15;27(8):

                        Calof AL, Bonnin A, Crocker C, Kawauchi S, Murray RC, Shou J, Wu HH.
                        Progenitor cells of the olfactory receptor neuron lineage. Microsc Res Tech. 2002 Aug 1;

                        Bartolomei JC, Greer CA. Olfactory ensheathing cells: bridging the gap in spinal cord injury. Neurosurgery. 2000 Nov;47(5):

                        James Kelly

                        [This message was edited by James Kelly on Oct 28, 2002 at 07:12 PM.]
                        James Kelly

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Is anyone able to attend Dr. Lima's conference?


                          Doreen

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Dr. Young, OEG Therapy Costs?

                            Doc,

                            What do you guesstimate OEG therapy would cost (including rehabilitation)? I think I saw you post a number of around $50,000 for the transplantation procedure. Does that include all the doctor's fees and a hospital stay? How much would you guess the rehabilitation would cost?

                            Allen Krupar
                            e-mail: oegpetition@cox.net
                            web site: http://members.cox.net/oegpetition/index.htm
                            Allen Krupar
                            e-mail: petition(NO SPAM)@cordtalk.org
                            web site: http://www.cordtalk.org/oeg/

                            ~~See You On the Dark Side of the Moon http://www.cordtalk.org/darkside.jpg

                            Cleveland Rocks!!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Dr.Lima's lecture

                              If I knew the time and place I would attend, take notes, and post them here.

                              JJG
                              Jake's Pop

                              Comment

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