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    ? for jerry silver

    So maybe this has been explained before, but how come with your research only one muscle can be activated. Shouldnt there be some way to also connect the spinal cord from above to below the injury so that it restores function to all muscles below the injury?
    T6 complete since 3/21/2012

    #2
    are you confusing jerry silver with justin brown?

    I have wondered the same thing about justin browns approach to restore arm and hand function. Would it be possible to restore almost all functions using the same procedure, but for other functions?
    "That's not smog! It's SMUG!! " - randy marsh, southpark

    "what???? , you don't 'all' wear a poop sac?.... DAMNIT BONNIE, YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THE POOP SAC!!!! "


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      #3
      its possible but I though j silver was using ch'ase injected above and below on a "nerve bridge" of sorts that directly bypasses to the muscle. I was just wondering why you couldnt just bypass around the injury site instead
      T6 complete since 3/21/2012

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        #4
        I think this "Nerve Bridge" approach directly on the spinal cord is going to be the quickest therapy to approve since it does not involve any type of cell treatment. To me it's more of a surgical treatment and should be easier to get through the FDA once we have a clinical grade of Chase approved.

        You would think if you could establish a pathway from above the injury to below it everything would come back but I guess each different level of the spinal cord and each location within the cord controls something specific. Not sure how or if you can do one bridge that get's everything working.

        It will be interesting to hear what Dr. Silver has to say at W2W in a few months...

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          #5
          Gray matter (lower injuries) still remain a mystery. Therein the reflex arc resides.
          Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

          T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

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            #6
            Originally posted by havok View Post
            So maybe this has been explained before, but how come with your research only one muscle can be activated. Shouldnt there be some way to also connect the spinal cord from above to below the injury so that it restores function to all muscles below the injury?
            The problem is: that for motor nerves moving down the spinal cord, the part of the nerve (axon) below the injury site dies and disappears; for sensory nerves moving up towards the brain, the part of the nerve above the injury site dies. So to reconnect the nerves to their targets, the axons must grow down the spinal cord and in some instances might be a full foot or 2 to their correct target. (likewise sensory axons must grow to the brain). There are also millions (billions?) of axons with different targets. It is not just connecting two ends together with 1 bridge. Does that make sense?

            This is a non-scientific answer and hopefully one of the doctors can better answer it.

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              #7
              Originally posted by NowhereMan View Post
              The problem is: that for motor nerves moving down the spinal cord, the part of the nerve (axon) below the injury site dies and disappears; for sensory nerves moving up towards the brain, the part of the nerve above the injury site dies. So to reconnect the nerves to their targets, the axons must grow down the spinal cord and in some instances might be a full foot or 2 to their correct target. (likewise sensory axons must grow to the brain). There are also millions (billions?) of axons with different targets. It is not just connecting two ends together with 1 bridge. Does that make sense?

              This is a non-scientific answer and hopefully one of the doctors can better answer it.
              Great explanation but kind of depressing when you think of what it will take to fix this injury and the probability of it...

              Comment


                #8
                Well, I just spent 2 hours writing a very long explanation that got lost when I had to log in again. I should have known better. Briefly, when we degrade proteoglycans in the perineuronal net that blocks sprouting after incomplete cord injuries we can improve multiple muscle groups by targeting multiple cord levels. Our previous bridge building strategies for promoting regeneration have resulted in much stronger return of function but only in limited numbers of distal muscles because as regenerating axons exit the bridge into gray matter they don't continue further down the cord. Now in complete transection injuries we are building bridges between white matter above and white matter below the lesion and with a few additional modifications the regenerating axons are growing for remarkably long distances with return of urinary function but also some return of locomotor behavior. The work on sprouting has been done at both acute as well as long chronic stages with strong return of function. Bridge building has so far been most effective at acute stages and I will discuss at W2W strategies to move these experiments into the chronic stage.

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                  #9
                  Hi,

                  I have to say that your research mr. Silver gets me very excited that we will finally get some tangible and functional improvement for chronics.

                  I am myself T8 incomplete 16 months post and I feel like such a therapy might be the small push I need to get me "up and running" again.

                  I know that research hasn't shown yet that ch'ase is effective for the corticospinal tract but the fact it shows promising results for diaphragm and bladder is encouraging.

                  I would like to know if you have any new developments on the administration method of ch'ase (which seems to be one of the biggest challenges for human treatment as the spinal cord is very thick). I know some great research gets done at Kings College (where I spent one year before my injury).

                  Thanks you

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by tweez View Post
                    Hi,

                    I have to say that your research mr. Silver gets me very excited that we will finally get some tangible and functional improvement for chronics.

                    I am myself T8 incomplete 16 months post and I feel like such a therapy might be the small push I need to get me "up and running" again.

                    I know that research hasn't shown yet that ch'ase is effective for the corticospinal tract but the fact it shows promising results for diaphragm and bladder is encouraging.

                    I would like to know if you have any new developments on the administration method of ch'ase (which seems to be one of the biggest challenges for human treatment as the spinal cord is very thick). I know some great research gets done at Kings College (where I spent one year before my injury).

                    Thanks you
                    It turns out that for incomplete injuries, ch'ase does promote sprouting of the CST and functional recovery of the forepaw in adult rodents at both acute and chronic time points. This is the work from the Fawcett lab. Multiple ch'ase injections have been given to primates for large area proteoglycan digestion with very nice results and no side effects. this is work from the Tuszynski lab. Thus, ch'ase can be delivered over a wide area big enough to stimulate plasticity in the human cord. We have a new peptide that blocks CSPG receptors and can be delivered systemically for long periods of time. Our results using an acute contusion model are showing very nice return of a number of functions including improved walking, bladder function and gridwalk abilities. I'll present this new data at W2W. Liz Bradbury's new lenti ch'ase promotes regeneration and sprouting of the CST among other pathways and restores some function after acute contusive injury as well.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Dr. Silver how far away is your therapy from humans? Is it still 3-5 years away or if everything fall's right in the near future?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jsilver View Post
                        It turns out that for incomplete injuries, ch'ase does promote sprouting of the CST and functional recovery of the forepaw in adult rodents at both acute and chronic time points. This is the work from the Fawcett lab. Multiple ch'ase injections have been given to primates for large area proteoglycan digestion with very nice results and no side effects. this is work from the Tuszynski lab. Thus, ch'ase can be delivered over a wide area big enough to stimulate plasticity in the human cord. We have a new peptide that blocks CSPG receptors and can be delivered systemically for long periods of time. Our results using an acute contusion model are showing very nice return of a number of functions including improved walking, bladder function and gridwalk abilities. I'll present this new data at W2W. Liz Bradbury's new lenti ch'ase promotes regeneration and sprouting of the CST among other pathways and restores some function after acute contusive injury as well.
                        Dr. Silver,

                        could you explain better what you mean with "a wide area big enough to stimulate plasticity"?

                        Does that mean that to have more benefical effect Ch'ase should be administrated in the injury and also below the injury site?

                        Paolo
                        In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Dr. Silver ,
                          Hi, in one of your post you said that CHAS' seems to work better in chronics than acute sci; isn't that correct ? when will you try your new peptide on "complete" chronic spinal cord injury animal (larger animal ) ? Thanks for your reply.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by #LHB# View Post
                            Dr. Silver how far away is your therapy from humans? Is it still 3-5 years away or if everything fall's right in the near future?
                            The International Spinal Research Trust (ISRT) is a wonderful SCI Foundation in the UK and is now pushing hard toward clinical trials with Ch'ase. I firmly believe that before 3 years is possible.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by kz View Post
                              Dr. Silver ,
                              Hi, in one of your post you said that CHAS' seems to work better in chronics than acute sci; isn't that correct ? when will you try your new peptide on "complete" chronic spinal cord injury animal (larger animal ) ? Thanks for your reply.
                              Yes, that is surprisingly true. We see stronger output from the phrenic motor neurons when ch'ase is delivered chronically (1.5 years after injury) after a C2 hemisection. the magnitude of the output is 4X that which we see after acute injury and administration of the enzyme. We are setting up animals now for peptide delivery at chronic stages following a severe contusive injury.

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