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  • #16
    Originally posted by 0xSquidy View Post
    Don't ask what clinical trials can do for you, ask what you can do for the clinical trials...
    Welcome to my new signature. Thanx again, Ox.
    "It's not the despair, I can handle the despair! It's the hope!" - John Cleese

    Don't ask what clinical trials can do for you, ask what you can do for clinical trials. (Ox)
    Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by topperf View Post
      Welcome to my new signature. Thanx again, Ox.
      I'm copying your idea
      Don't ask what clinical trials can do for you, ask what you can do for clinical trials.

      Fenexy: Proyecto Volver a Caminar

      http://www.fenexy.org (soon in english too)

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by topperf View Post
        Why not?
        - The trouble (I think?) they have finding participants in Hong Kong gave me an idea.

        Perhaps we could make a database with SCI people, willing to participate, and maybe even travel, to be a part of a clinical trial?

        I was thinking along the lines of a headline for each individual like:
        (Me for instant)

        Male. 35 y.o. Denmark. (will travel) c5-c6 partial sensory incomplete.

        And if you wanted to know more, you could click for the whole picture, or send a request for X-rays, details, etc. ect.

        I think we could fill up those trials faster?!

        Maybe it's already out there? If so - link please.

        Kind regards.

        I've often thought of this idea, especially when I see the fact that these clinical trials are not easy to find participants for. The way I see it, the longer we have to wait for participants, the longer we wait for results, the longer we wait for the next phase, and the longer we wait for the cure. Not to mention the fact that when some of these trials don't have a lot of money, the chance that they'll run out and abandon the trial is greater. I also remember criticism of trying to get Martinez to Switzerland because it some said it didn't make sense for an American to participate in a trial being held in Europe.

        In this day and age when travel is easy and people have access to telecommunications including the internet which allows them to interact with their friends and families back home, why this is the correct strategy.

        Hell, I like to see and sci city built in one place and then at least the scientists would all see each other and share. It looks like sometimes, clinical trial networks are being built in different countries, to try the same thing. Maybe this is just my own ignorance, and if it is, please tell me, but it's not like bone marrow cells or umbilical cord blood will work differently on people from different countries.

        I would hate to think that the goal is to create networks rather than try out the science.
        Dennis Tesolat
        www.StemCellsandAtomBombs.blogspot.com

        "Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom."
        Martin Luther King

        Comment


        • #19
          "I also remember criticism of trying to get Martinez to Switzerland because it some said it didn't make sense for an American to participate in a trial being held in Europe.

          In this day and age when travel is easy and people have access to telecommunications including the internet which allows them to interact with their friends and families back home, why this is the correct strategy."

          - This was actually what hit the nail on the head for me - combined with the knowledge of what/who is needed where, I mean - a post in the cure section saying:
          "Participants needed in (insert country) - for (insert description and link) send application and info to: (insert mail)"

          Could move things forward?
          "It's not the despair, I can handle the despair! It's the hope!" - John Cleese

          Don't ask what clinical trials can do for you, ask what you can do for clinical trials. (Ox)
          Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by topperf View Post
            "I also remember criticism of trying to get Martinez to Switzerland because it some said it didn't make sense for an American to participate in a trial being held in Europe.

            In this day and age when travel is easy and people have access to telecommunications including the internet which allows them to interact with their friends and families back home, why this is the correct strategy."

            - This was actually what hit the nail on the head for me - combined with the knowledge of what/who is needed where, I mean - a post in the cure section saying:
            "Participants needed in (insert country) - for (insert description and link) send application and info to: (insert mail)"

            Could move things forward?
            It would be nice if the world is one huge cooperative place. It is not. If clinical trials are not done in the United States, it will take years or even decades for the therapies to reach the United States. There are drugs that have been approved in Europe for over a decade but are not available in the United States. The same will be true of cell therapies. In the United States, we have a tendency to dismiss anything that was not developed here, i.e. a "not-invented-here" syndrome.

            This may come as a surprise to some people but, having seen neurosurgery in the United States (I was on the faculty of the Neurosurgery Department at NYU Medical Center for 10 years) and China, I can say that spinal cord surgery is not better in the United States. Most spinal surgeons in China, for example, have much more surgical experience than U.S. surgeons. Most do 400 or more cases a year and have much more experience with trauma than spinal surgeons in the U.S.

            In the area of cell transplants, U.S. doctors are babes in the wood compared to Chinese surgeons. How many doctors have had any experience with removing bone marrow and transplanting bone marrow cells into the brain and spinal cord? How many have transplanted stem cells of any kind into the brain or spinal cord? I suspect that less than a dozen U.S. doctors have had any experience injecting cells into patients to treat central nervous system disorders. So, clinical trials in the United States are necessary if we want the therapy to be practiced in the United States, to be funded by insurance in the United States, and to be available for the vast majority of people in the United States.

            On the other hand, a new development is likely to change the world of medicine as we know it. A former student of mine is organizing a billion-dollar hospital in Inchon, just across the street from the International Airport in Seoul, South Korea. This hospital, to be run by Yonsei University, is certified by the top medical certification bodies in the United States. This new hospital has already signed deals with several major U.S. and international insurance companies to cover procedures done in the hospital. Within a year, American patients will be stepping on airplanes to fly to Inchon to get their elective procedures done at half the cost of the same procedure in the United States. This hospital has been talking to me about doing clinical trials on spinal cord injury.

            Wise.
            Last edited by Wise Young; 06-19-2011, 08:30 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Good news Wise.

              Will this hospital in Seoul be doing all kind of stem cell treatments on SCI patients with combination of therapies?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Wise Young View Post

                On the other hand, a new development is likely to change the world of medicine as we know it. A former student of mine is organizing a billion-dollar hospital in Inchon, just across the street from the International Airport in Seoul, South Korea. This hospital, to be run by Yonsei University, is certified by the top medical certification bodies in the United States. This new hospital has already signed deals with several major U.S. and international insurance companies to cover procedures done in the hospital. Within a year, American patients will be stepping on airplanes to fly to Inchon to get their elective procedures done at half the cost of the same procedure in the United States. This hospital has been talking to me about doing clinical trials on spinal cord injury.

                Wise.
                I do believe that it is more efficent to do chronic SCI clinical trials in one big center (at least phase I/II) in a place with a reasonable "FDA" and with reasonable costs.
                Is that what you are thinking to do?

                Paolo
                In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
                  On the other hand, a new development is likely to change the world of medicine as we know it. A former student of mine is organizing a billion-dollar hospital in Inchon, just across the street from the International Airport in Seoul, South Korea. This hospital, to be run by Yonsei University, is certified by the top medical certification bodies in the United States. This new hospital has already signed deals with several major U.S. and international insurance companies to cover procedures done in the hospital. Within a year, American patients will be stepping on airplanes to fly to Inchon to get their elective procedures done at half the cost of the same procedure in the United States. This hospital has been talking to me about doing clinical trials on spinal cord injury.

                  Wise.
                  That's good to hear. I'm only a hop, skip and a jump from Inchon. Maybe something great will happen and I will be able to truly hop, skip, and jump.
                  Dennis Tesolat
                  www.StemCellsandAtomBombs.blogspot.com

                  "Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom."
                  Martin Luther King

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
                    I do believe that it is more efficent to do chronic SCI clinical trials in one big center (at least phase I/II) in a place with a reasonable "FDA" and with reasonable costs.
                    Is that what you are thinking to do?

                    Paolo
                    Paolo,

                    Multicenter trials are generally more credible to doctors. Multicenter trials introduce a lot of variables but the world is multicentered. So, the concept that one trial center can do all the work is probably not a good one. Likewise, doing it in China alone does not may not be credible either. So, that is why I have been globe-trotting to establish several respected networks that can work to gather to gather data.

                    Wise.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Why China is not creditable?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KIM View Post
                        Why China is not creditable?
                        This is my question, too. Not credible to whom? If something big comes out of China, that's enough credibility for me.
                        Dennis Tesolat
                        www.StemCellsandAtomBombs.blogspot.com

                        "Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom."
                        Martin Luther King

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
                          ................
                          On the other hand, a new development is likely to change the world of medicine as we know it. A former student of mine is organizing a billion-dollar hospital in Inchon, just across the street from the International Airport in Seoul, South Korea. This hospital, to be run by Yonsei University, is certified by the top medical certification bodies in the United States. This new hospital has already signed deals with several major U.S. and international insurance companies to cover procedures done in the hospital. Within a year, American patients will be stepping on airplanes to fly to Inchon to get their elective procedures done at half the cost of the same procedure in the United States. This hospital has been talking to me about doing clinical trials on spinal cord injury.

                          Wise.
                          I hope they will do many clinical trials for SCI ASAP - and that they will accept candidates from any country - and, if money it is a problem, that they will allow patiants to contribute to the cost of the trial.
                          I know that this is unethical, but it is more unhetical not to do clinical trials for ethical issues I think.

                          People just want to walk out of w/c and don't give a damn about ethics.

                          Paolo
                          Last edited by paolocipolla; 07-03-2011, 05:21 PM.
                          In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
                            it is more unhetical not to do clinical trials for ethical issues I think.
                            BAM.
                            Don't ask what clinical trials can do for you, ask what you can do for clinical trials.

                            Fenexy: Proyecto Volver a Caminar

                            http://www.fenexy.org (soon in english too)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Surely the overused term (so fashionable in computer system design and deploymnet) can be applied here. A centre has to be large enough to have the staff and resources to provide adequate service, but in too much centralisation, we are risking the "all-the-eggs-in-one-basket syndrome.

                              Whatever happens ultimately must be exportable - the knowledge and techniques developed by Christian Barnard were disseminated around the world.

                              Credibility is something else.
                              2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
                              Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by paolocipolla View Post
                                I hope they will do many clinical trials for SCI ASAP - and that they will accept candidates from any country - and, if money it is a problem, that they will allow patiants to contribute to the cost of the trial.
                                I know that this is unethical, but it is more unhetical not to do clinical trials for ethical issues I think.

                                People just want to walk out of w/c and don't give a damn about ethics.

                                Paolo
                                There's a lot in what you mean here Paolo. Ethics are important, however, as they can protect the patient apart from any wider issues. (Many argue, I believe with much good reason, that eugenic engineering is wrong).

                                Sooner or later the bullet has to be bitten, though, and we, the disabled have to get into treatments, otherwise we will be like the plane that stays in the wind tunnel without actually flying.

                                I would paraphrase what you said, and say that if I got out of the wheel chair and walked, courtesy of an "unscientific" procedure I would certainly not give a damn about the details. Much science has resulted from empiricism, i.e. suck it and see.
                                2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
                                Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

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