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  • Dr.Young, what has happened with the Cando/Spinewire data

    Dr.Young,in July you were negotiating with them to take over all the data from the forums.But,as I remember correctly you said they were hoping to sell the content to somebody else with a better offer. But now it's almost 4 months further and I haven't heard anything since then so I assume we never see back all the articles and postings from the old forums.I regret that because I really miss the worthfull information which was stored there.Could you comment if we indeed have lost all the information or are you still trying to get it and is there still hope?

  • #2
    Pecla,

    The negotiations fell through. I don't really understand the behavior of the Cando Board and why they decided to sell exclusive use of the contents to another buyer. In any case, I have most of the articles that I wrote and had been posted on Spinewire/Cando. Please note that most of the articles are out of date and I shall be updating them to reflect the latest information. When I find the time to do that, I will eventually post them on the Carecure site.

    Wise.

    Comment


    • #3
      Did not I tell you Wise many times...

      that cando is f--kin' capitalistic pigs [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
      and they only care about how to make profits from us [img]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

      Hope you do not have any illusions about them anymore [img]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/img]

      They advertised their opening with big fanfare

      Hopefully everybody from here would boycot buying from them so they would get bancrupt pretty soon..
      [img]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
      http://stores.ebay.com/MAKSYM-Variety-Store

      Comment


      • #4
        yeeeeeeeeeah

        jeff and i told you too dr young. now what do you have to say for yourself? you start by saying, max, DA, and jeff you were right and i was wrong.
        [img]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

        happy turkey day all

        Comment


        • #5
          Da,

          Somehow Wise forgot to respond on this one? [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/img]
          http://stores.ebay.com/MAKSYM-Variety-Store

          Comment


          • #6
            In the end, it doesn't really matter who is right or wrong. In the world of business, you can't go around calling people names and expect them to do any business with you. Wise.

            Comment


            • #7
              dr young you mean "shouldn't", not "can't"

              arab countries are going beyond name calling, they are calling for our death yet business keeps going.


              max,
              i was just picking with dr young. his screw up, blunder, mistake, oversight, slip, boo boo, error, lapse, dropped the ball, slipped on a banana, fell in muddy water is ok. at least he is trying, right dr young? [img]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

              Comment


              • #8
                DA, you are right that business will keep going on as long as you have enough money to pay. In our case, we offered $25,000 but it was not enough. Incidentally, don't you think that this site is better than than the Cando site? At least we no longer have those wheelchair umbrella ads [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dear Wise,

                  Your answer somehow surprized me & raised some serious questions I have to you & others who may be able to clear.

                  You wrote"In the end, it doesn't really matter who is right or wrong. In the world of business, you can't go around calling people names and expect them to do any business with you. Wise."

                  1.Are you or any members of present forum still in
                  any kind of business with cando?

                  2,What was initial deal with them & who sighed it on behalf of our community? Was there any confidentiality clue that you or other cannot comment or make public statements about "business"
                  with cando?

                  3.Do you or any other members of initial deal know
                  about any grants or tax writeoffs received by cando as result of our cooperation?

                  4. Did you or other members received any direct or indirect fees or grants (exept only small fees for moderators) from cando?

                  5.Did we had to provide some kind montly sales for cando to stay there?

                  6 What happen with your copyright in case with canndo?

                  7. Do you & other members still consider cando good or bad corporate citizen?

                  8. Is all this cando stuff somehow connected with Patricia or its a coincedence?

                  Hope no hard feelings & thanx in advance for clearing it out.

                  I love this website & if Rutgers get some grats to mantain it---its money well spend!

                  Regards,
                  Max
                  http://stores.ebay.com/MAKSYM-Variety-Store

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In answer to your questions:

                    1. Are you or any members of present forum still inany kind of business with cando?
                    • Spinewire and Cando do not exist any longer as companies. The Cando web site was sold to another company. None of four founders of spinewire, including myself, Mark Pinney, Tom Duane, and Patricia Morton have any relationship with the new company. In fact, I did not even know who bought the old website until recently.

                    2. What was initial deal with them & who sighed it on behalf of our community? Was there any confidentiality clue that you or other cannot comment or make public statements about "business"
                    with cando?
                    • There was never any deal between the "community" and Cando. When spinewire was formed, the money to develop the web site was put up by Mark Pinney who received both common and preferred stock in spinewire. The other founders of spinewire (myself, Patricia Morton, Tom Duane) also received some common shares for our work. Sam Maddox was employed by Spinewire. Spinewire merged with Cando. The spinewire common shares became Cando common shares. In April 2001, the Cando Board of Directors announced that it was liquidating Cando and declared all Cando common shares worthless. Only preferred shares (which represent stocks bought with cash by the investors) remained. Sometime in July 2001, Cando fired all its employees, shut its door, sold its assets which included the Cando web site, name, and some money in the bank. As I understand it, the preferred stock was sold at less than 20 cents to the dollar. So, people like Mark Pinney, for example, lost most of his substantial investment into spinewire. Those of us who received only common shares lost everything. I have no confidentiality agreement with Cando.

                    3. Do you or any other members of initial deal know about any grants or tax writeoffs received by cando as result of our cooperation?
                    • I don't know of any grants or tax writeoffs received by cando.

                    4. Did you or other members received any direct or indirect fees or grants (exept only small fees for moderators) from cando?
                    • None of the founders of spinewire received any direct or indirect fees or grants from Cando, except for Mark Pinney who received a salary and shares for his role as chief executive officer. I never received any payment from Cando even though I was supposedly an "advisor". Likewise, I never received any payment from spinewire.

                    5. Did we had to provide some kind montly sales for cando to stay there?
                    • Spinewire developed and owned the web site. When Cando merged with spinewire, it owned the web site. The web site was not separate from Cando.

                    Please note that our current CareCure web site has nothing to do with Cando or spinewire. It is owned by Rutgers University and is non-profit.

                    6. What happen with your copyright in case with cando?
                    • Cando apparently copyrighted all the material on the web site.

                    7. Do you & other members still consider cando good or bad corporate citizen?
                    • I am obviously disappointed by the behavior of Cando and believe that they mismanaged the company. I think that they should have provided the contents of the web site to the community. They chose not to do provide Rutgers access to the contents despite our offering to pay for it.

                    8. Is all this cando stuff somehow connected with Patricia or its a coincedence?
                    • I don't understand your question. Patricia was a founder of spinewire. She, like the other founders, worked very hard to make spinewire a reality without receiving any pay.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      copyright issues

                      As far as copyright issues, I am taking copyright and patent law this semester- this will give me a chance to analyize something fun for a change.

                      The first thing to analyize is whether or not articles at the Cando site would be available for copyright in the first place. Section 102 of the Copyright act states that original works of authoship fixed in a tangible medium of expression are available for copyright protection.

                      The articles posted at the site- from message board posts to articles written by others would have elements of originality and authorship. True, an article or post might be relating facts and statistics, which are not copyrightable, but the particular structure and expressioin of the facts embodies in a post or article would be available for copyright protection.

                      As far as the elements of fixed in a tangible medium of expression, that is defined as the ability to reproduce the work by physical or electronic means by any method known now or in the future. A message board post becomes fixed in a tangible means of expression with the ability of reproduction at the moment the "post" button is pushed. The digital data is stored on the Cando server and has the ability to be reproduced by a computer with an Internet connection and a "web browser" that decodes HTML or other programming language. In light of the fixed in a tangible medium of expression, message board posts or articles submitted to Cando digitally are protectable. It would go without saying that any article or post prepared on your computer and emailed to Cando would be protected by the copyright act, as well.

                      Since the amendment of the Copyright Act in 1976, effective 1/1/78, copyright protection is not a protection that has to be filed for: copyright protection is available at the moment of fixation in a tangible mediu,m of expression. One would not have to register a work to get copyright protection, in other words. One would have to register the copyright in order to have standing to bring a copyright action, however. So in looking at the above facts, a message board post, or article, whether written in an email to Cando or written on your own computer and transmitted to Cando, would be protected by the copyright act fom the moment the original work of authorship was fixed in a tangible medium of expression.

                      Now, it has been established that digital posts to message boards and articles fixed digitally are protected by copyright.

                      The next question would be what protections you have, and have any been violated by Cando.

                      In answer to the first question, section 106 of the copyright act gives 6 elements of a work that is covered by the copyright act: the right to copy, distribute, display publicly, perform publically, to prepare derivative works, and to transmit or perform digitally. In looking at these rights, if someone copied a portion of an article for use without gaining a license from you, they have violated the copyright act. If someone used a copy they made to reporduce many copies and handed them out to other people in the pubklic, they have violated the copy and distribute provisions of the act. In theory, if your remarks or original words were posted on a billboard, the display provision would be violated. I am not so sure you can perform an article or message board post, so that would be safe. If someone prepared a movie based on an article or message board post, they would have prepared a derivative work. If youe article was misappropriated and posted at another site wothout a license from the copyright owner, the right to transmit digitally has been violated. It was not given in the facts if any of these things had been done.

                      The ability to contract out of the copyright act is available, so you would need to examine any users rights provisions of Cando's site. For instance, if in the end user agreewment there is any mention of posts becoming property of Cando, and you clicked yes to the agreement, in theory you have given the copyright to Cando. This is not a contract exercise, so I will only say that a digital "button click" contract could be fought as a contract of adhesion and unavailable. The copyright act tends to be protective of copyright owners/producers, and not users, so you could probably get around that in a court.

                      If you were paid for your contributions, you would need to analyize if the articles were written as a work for hire. Some works become owned by the employer in the even of a work for hire, and the term of copyright would run from either 95 years form creation or 125 years from 1st publication, whichever runs out first. If you are getting paid for a work prepared on Cando's computers in an office at Cando's headquarters, with Cando's research, that would point to being an employee, however, if you are only being paid a small consideration, and you are getting no benefits (insurance, retirement, etc.), a court would probably not find you as being an employee, and therefore, the copyright would remain in the ownership of the creator.

                      As far as the term of copyright, under the 1976 Copyright Act, the term of copyright runs from the moment of creation for life of the author plus 70 years.

                      There is no fact given as to what Cando is doing or will do with any works, nor is there any other fact given as to the nature of the relationship between the user, Cando, and the creators of the possible copyrights. That is as complete a discussioin of copyright issues available with respect to Cando and articles and message board posts stored on their servers.

                      Hensley-Martin Management
                      "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked..."
                      - Allen Ginsburg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Wise,

                        This clears everything for me...

                        I asked about Patricia only becase three was some problem with grants recently..I posted atricle on this website...
                        How is she doing? Pass my best regards...

                        Justin thanx for info very useful
                        http://stores.ebay.com/MAKSYM-Variety-Store

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          W. Justin Martin,

                          Thanks for your long and learned posting concerning copyright. It took me a little while to digest it. Here are some potentially relevant facts:

                          • Cando did not pay me for anything that I wrote for the site. Cando did pay for a number of articles from other writers. However, none of the articles that I submitted (probably close to 100 of them) were paid for by Cando in any form. I did receive some stock from spinewire but this stock is because I was one of the founders rather than because I submitted written material. As I pointed out below, those stocks are worthless.

                          • Most of the material that I wrote and subsequently posted on Cando were original and had not been posted elsewhere before or since. I have most of the original files. The more relevant question is whether or not they can use the material that I wrote without my permission. I haven't decided what to do if they do use the material without my permission.

                          I have talked with some lawyers about the copyright situation. Their advice in July was to offer to buy the material from Cando, either on an exclusive or non-exclusive basis. This would make the situation clear and would avoid conflict in the future. That was the reason why we offered to buy the contents of the site. They decided not to sell.

                          I think that I can probably post the articles that I wrote on the carecure web site. It can be argued that, in the absence of any formal or informal agreements concerning the material, that I simply made a loan of the articles for posting. I don't think that the new company would or could sue me for using my own material. Besides, most of those articles have dated information and I will be updating them before posting them.

                          In my opinion, the contents of he spinewire/cando forums was the most important part of the old web site. There were over 30,000 postings, many of them heartfelt commentary by people, over a period of 3 years. What I don't understand is why Cando behaved the way that they did. The new company cannot really use the old forum material. It can only be presented as an archive. By the way, due to recently enacted privacy laws, Cando was not allowed to transfer the mailing list to any other party. Thus, the new company should not have received the old registration and mailing list. I don't think that they did and they have not used it to send out a mailing, that I am aware of.

                          In the end, it doesn't really matter. We now have this CareCure site and I think that it is better than the old one and will get even better.

                          Wise.

                          [This message was edited by Wise Young on December 02, 2001 at 09:44 PM.]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Max, you are welcome. Regarding Patricia's situation, it is being resolved. I am not free to talk about it since this is a matter that is between her and the state. However, I can and will reiterate my absolute and total confidence in her integrity and commitment to the community. Wise.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Those guys at Cando must have rocks for brains. I am almost ashamed to have worked for them as moderator of the old forum. I cannot imagine how the posts could have any economic value or how they could make money off them. So why did they turn down $25,000? Go figure.

                              On the other hand, the posts would be useful for many with sci. Wise's posts and the spinal nurse posts were a great resource. However, this forum is a a better forum, although some information will have to be reposted or rewritten - and research information changes so fast that much of the old Cando posts are obsolete. Bill

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