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Feasibility of combination allogeneic stem cell therapy for SCI: a case report

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    #31
    actually im sorry, i shouldnt get so angry. i just think that we should look to what everyone is down and see how we can advance the field

    this area of spinal cord injury seems so multifactorial...the whole concept of scar tissue formation, using enzymes to modulate the scar, the impact of the immunological component (some groups showing activated t cells improve recovery), endogenous regenerative cells in the spine, exogenous reparative cells, angiogenesis....there are so many factors at play, and so many approaches...instead of arguing with each other and putting every other approach down, i really think we should all get allong (my kumbaya moment).

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by thomasichim View Post
      Hi, I noticed the discussion and I figured I should share a recent paper we published. Obviously its not "evidence" because it is only one patient...but i think that the rationale and concept put forward should be followed and tested in randomized trials.

      The patient "got better"

      here is the link http://www.intarchmed.com/content/pd...-7682-3-30.pdf
      Thomas,

      Thank you for sharing your case report with us. It was very interesting and promising as well. It is indeed a rare event (<5%) that a patient converts from ASIA A to D with bowel and bladder recovery. Unfortunately, in your paper, the patient's initial neurological status was unclear. According to your paper,
      At the time of the accident he was diagnosed with an incomplete spinal cord injury at the level T12 - L1, and crush fracture of the L1 vertebral body which was described as a type A in the ASIA scale.
      This description raises questions whether the patient was really ASIA A, which is the current definition of "complete" spinal cord injury. It would be very informative for our members to know approximately how many patients your group has treated with this therapy and how many of patients recovered like this one.

      Wise.

      Comment


        #33
        Thank you

        Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
        Thomas,

        Thank you for sharing your case report with us. It was very interesting and promising as well. It is indeed a rare event (<5%) that a patient converts from ASIA A to D with bowel and bladder recovery. Unfortunately, in your paper, the patient's initial neurological status was unclear. According to your paper,


        This description raises questions whether the patient was really ASIA A, which is the current definition of "complete" spinal cord injury. It would be very informative for our members to know approximately how many patients your group has treated with this therapy and how many of patients recovered like this one.

        Wise.
        Thank you Dr. Young for reading our paper. Please allow me to contact our doctors and get back to you on this. I believe off the top of my head that the overall number treated to date was 20-30, but because i am in charge of Medistem USA and focus on animal models and writing patents/papers, I dont have the exact number handy but I will get it and post it here soon

        congrats on the this wonderful forum...it provides such a neat area for interaction !

        Tom

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          #34
          I sent u email on ur address but could not deliever Thomas

          Comment


            #35
            my email

            Originally posted by Jawaid View Post
            I sent u email on ur address but could not deliever Thomas
            thomas.ichim@medisteminc.com and personal is thomas.ichim@gmail.com

            Comment


              #36
              I merged a thread entitled "Does anyone have experience with cellmedicine.com" with this thread, both of which discusses a paper published by Dr. Thomas Ichim.

              Wise.

              Comment


                #37
                It's nice to see Dr. Wise Young chime in! How refreshing to hear someone thanked for posting information for us and such polite questions asked. That is a true gentleman. Perhaps more researchers, doctors, advocates and members would return to the care cure forums if they were treated with such respect from everyone. It would be refreshing to see members reply without the mean nasty posts. They are unnecessary and unproductive.
                http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                  #38
                  Yes, indeed. Collaboration is the key to finding out the solution.

                  Thomas, any update on the patients treated and their recovery till-date?

                  I am sure almost all the members on this forum are very very eager to know the safety and efficacy of the treatment(including the limitations and side effects) published in your paper.

                  And if Dr. Wise could provide his expert advice regarding this paper, it would be indeed very helpful to millions of people around the world....who are eagerly waiting for a breakthrough...

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Grammy, the thing about Dr Young, is this forum keeps hopes alive for hundreds of thousnads of us. That alone is a monumental accoplishment. Imagine being alone day after day. Now if therapies will start to improve the lives of some of us, then provide additional hope for many more of us. let's just comtinue to hope.

                    keeping on

                    Comment


                      #40
                      huh? Sorry keeping on... I guess I'm missing your point. I don't see any relevance to my previous post... What connection are you attempting to make?

                      (I was in NO way critiquing Dr. Wise Youngs monumental accomplishments or even addressing hope for hundreds of thousands...)
                      http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Dr Ichim,

                        In another thread, I was critical of your paper. It is nice that you are posting on Care Cure, and I would like to ask you some questions directly.

                        First, I want to say that I sustained a spinal cord injury about ten years ago and have been around this forum most of that time. I have seen many treatments in clinics around the world come and go, and so far, all of them pretty much don't do a damn thing.

                        So I run across Medistem and Cell Medicine. I look at the slick Cell Medicine web site and I see a list of the usual diseases and conditions that are treated, anecodotal evidence that these therapies are effective, and that I would have to travel to a country in the developing world to get treated, probably at an expense of tens-of-thousands of dollars. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing desperate people jumping on this bandwagon or that one, spending large amounts of money and risking their lives on apparently worthless procedures. However, I would be ecstatic to see a procedure with clinical evidence that it actually works!

                        Earlier in this thread, Dr. Young asked one of my questions about the neurological status of the subject in your case study. Given that this person had substantial motor sparing below his injury, which indicates that he would likely have significant recovery without a medical intervention like this. In addition, the paper states that he received physical therapy throughout the course of treatment. It is well documented that physical therapy does help people, especially those with incomplete injuries. I was ASIA B 24 hours after injury, and am ASIA D and a community ambulator now. Had I had treatments like the person in your case study, it would have been easy to say that the treatments helped me, even if they did nothing. Is it any wonder I'm testy?

                        I have looked at the authors of your paper and I don't see anyone with a background in neuroscience or spinal cord injury, though there are a few of the people from Panama or Costa Rica that I could not find any information on. Who are your experts on neuroscience and spinal cord injury?

                        I'm also curious about the use of intrathecal injections of cells. Results of that procedure that I've seen reported here on Care Cure and elsewhere appear minimal at best. Why are you going that route? And why should intravenous injections do anything at all? Are you planning any real clinical trials to test these procedures?

                        Thank you,
                        -Bruce
                        Last edited by bruce; 29 Nov 2010, 1:58 PM.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by bruce View Post
                          Dr Ichim,

                          In another thread, I was critical of your paper. It is nice that you are posting on Care Cure, and I would like to ask you some questions directly.

                          First, I want to say that I sustained a spinal cord injury about ten years ago and have been around this forum most of that time. I have seen many treatments in clinics around the world come and go, and so far, all of them pretty much don't do a damn thing.

                          So I run across Medistem and Cell Medicine. I look at the slick Cell Medicine web site and I see a list of the usual diseases and conditions that are treated, anecodotal evidence that these therapies are effective, and that I would have to travel to a country in the developing world to get treated, probably at an expense of tens-of-thousands of dollars. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing desperate people jumping on this bandwagon or that one, spending large amounts of money and risking their lives on apparently worthless procedures. However, I would be ecstatic to see a procedure with clinical evidence that it actually works!

                          Earlier in this thread, Dr. Young asked one of my questions about the neurological status of the subject in your case study. Given that this person had substantial motor sparing below his injury, which indicates that he would likely have significant recovery without a medical intervention like this. In addition, the paper states that he received physical therapy throughout the course of treatment. It is well documented that physical therapy does help people, especially those with incomplete injuries. I was ASIA B 24 hours after injury, and am ASIA D and a community ambulator now. Had I had treatments like the person in your case study, it would have been easy to say that the treatments helped me, even if they did nothing. Is it any wonder I'm testy?

                          I have looked at the authors of your paper and I don't see anyone with a background in neuroscience or spinal cord injury, though there are a few of the people from Panama or Costa Rica that I could not find any information on. Who are your experts on neuroscience and spinal cord injury?

                          I'm also curious about the use of intrathecal injections of cells. Results of that procedure that I've seen reported here on Care Cure and elsewhere appear minimal at best. Why are you going that route? And why should intravenous injections do anything at all? Are you planning any real clinical trials to test these procedures?

                          Thank you,
                          -Bruce

                          Hi Bruce, thank you and the other members of this forum for comments and reading the paper.

                          Let me mention first my situation. Being CEO of Medistem Inc, my duties are focused on our filed IND with the FDA for treatment of critical limb ischemia using the new stem cell that we discovered, the Endometrial Regenerative Cell.

                          The work performed outside of the US is by Cellmedicine who have licensed our technologies but we do not received ongoing royalties after the license agreement was modified more than a year ago. This means that advertising patient treatments is completely outside of Medistem's main scope of interest.

                          The paper was written on the first patient that was treated with the combined protocol. I thought it should be reported in the literature because to my knowledge it is the first time that someone has used CD34 and mesenchymal-based cells.

                          The concept (and please please comment and critize) was that angiogenesis is beneficial and sometimes critically tied into neurogenesis (thats why CD34s) and that the mesenchymals will provide a suitable environment.

                          Because of the licensee-licensor relationship (it can be found on our previous public filings) I do not have all of the data at my fingertips. I am sorry I have not found out exactly how many patients have been treated yet. I do need to find this out for you.

                          You are absolutely correct that there are spontaneous remissions. I believe we mentioned this in the paper.

                          In no way did I want to give the impression that if someone goes and gets the procedure done, then they will have the same results.

                          Given that we filed our IND for our new cells, it may be very useful to file with FDA for spinal cord injury once the first one is approved.

                          Thank you for your suggestions, and please, if i forget to get back to you, please email to me directly at thomas.ichim@gmail.com

                          Best wishes

                          Tom

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Bruce and thomasichem; great posts. I don't cpmletly understand them but the back and forth of real information is good for all of us. We need to know what is real and not. I wish we could get more of this banter on all cures and fake cures. We are getting toi that point on this forum. Again thenk you for the interesting posts.

                            keeping on

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by 0xSquidy View Post
                              Tomasichim,

                              This is what you are saying: we've published a VOID paper that shows NO evidence with NO statistical significance in a LOW IMPACT journal.

                              I hope you can do better than that.


                              Originally posted by 0xSquidy View Post
                              I understand you've been paralyzed for a long time and seems to me you have lost the hope for a treatment for you. I'm sorry if i'm wrong on that but if i am not, why do you keep visiting the cure forum and posting always the same kind of tune? Lots of people do get discouraged in helping because of comments like that one, maybe you can try harder with your negativity.



                              I think Lynnifer is correct. We need better moderators that post things like this. Thanks Squid...
                              http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Hi I foudn the numbers treated by our collaborators...posted it on another thread and now i cant seem to find it !!!

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