ChinaSCINet Update

[JohnMarz]

There is a huge amount of work that needs to be done before we can start the phase III trials. In the next six months, we have to get all this data analyzed and published. For example, we have to establish a GMP cell processing facility in China. We will need to get IND applications approved in China, U.S., Norway, and India. If we don't start this work now, we won't be able to initiate the phase III trial until 2014. In my opinion, the data that we have obtained to date suggests that it is worthwhile going to phase III trial. Of course, the data that we are collecting in the Kunming trial may alter that opinion.

Wise.

Thank you for answering all the questions about the trial. I've been trying to read up as much as possible and not ask redundant questions. From what I can understand the data thats been presented is just the 6 week data and we can expect to see the full 6 month report at the end of the month. This will determine whether or not you will procede with a phase 3 in the US, correct? Everything so far looks very promising and I am anxiously awaiting the trials here. If you do go on with the trials is there a set amount that would need to be raised before the trials can begin? I feel like it's easier to get people to donate when there is a set goal to reach. Thanks again

[Jim]

John, data won't be available until Dec I believe.

[paolocipolla]

When I said that there were no changes in the motor scores of people, I was referring to the muscles tested according to the ASIA exam. Subjects are showing locomotor improvement without changes in their motor score in our study. My answer to your question assumed that you were referring to the motor score, which reflects voluntary control of the muscles tested. In any case, we have mostly indirect and limited control of our bladder and bowels and recovery of these functions is not necessarily associated with voluntary control of other muscles, particularly those that are tested in the ASIA motor score.

Wise.

Wise, sorry I was kidding a bit and I got you confused

I was asking if any patient has recovered bowel &/or bladder, which means to recover control of them, which means voluntary control of them, which means voluntary control of the sphincters as all AB people do while they are looking for a bathroom.

Conclusion: to recover B&B you need to recover some voluntary movements.

ASIA scale does not have anything to do with B&B control. I knew that.

I also think that the ASIA scale should be abandoned as it still gets people confused including doctors. That is an indication that there is a problem with it.

Just my opinions.

Paolo

[paolocipolla]

Paolo,

I'm a member of the spinal cord injury community with an injury very similar to yours, and have become increasingly frustrated with your posts every day. I mean come on, what are you really trying to do here, discredit the very thing that could make us better? Make us lose hope? Even worse, make the doctors/scientist who are trying so hard feel like we' re an ungrateful lot? I mean really, I just can't take it anymore, enough is enough!

Why don't you try doing something productive instead of taking potshots at every little thing Dr. Young has to say. With the time/energy you spend here every day I'm sure you could do all sorts of great things raising money and awareness for a cure.

-Mike

Mike,

I am sorry that you feel like that, you can ignore my posts if they disturb you, which I can understand.
You could also consider to pay more attention to what I write, dig into it and maybe in a while you may agree with some of my posts.

In any case keep hope alive, if I am affecting your hope "send me to hell"

Paolo

[c473s]

I also think that the ASIA scale should be abandoned as it still gets people confused including doctors. That is an indication that there is a problem with it.

Just my opinions.

Paolo

The current scale is actually referred to as AIS in presentations. not a ton different but a bit more nuanced. Unfortunately so many are overwhelmed with what has just happened and the educational piece of rehabilitation is not well understood until a little later in the continuum. I feel it is much like drinking from a fire hose in acute rehabilitation.

[6 Shooter]

Wise--Based on your descriptions of your clinical trials of stemcell injections, the structure of the CNS, growth rate of nerves, and your best intuitive/educational guesses, what sequence of sensory and motor recovery would you expect to see?

For example, would you expect a C-6 patient begin to see changes at the C-7 level, then the C-8 level? Would you expect to see increased sensory before increased muscle nerve inervation? Would you expect that the last to come back on-line would be bladder, then bowel, then sexual function, assuming that the nerves connected to the correct location and the patient performed the necessary physical therapy to re-train the muscles?

And, assuming that we have found a perfect solution for CNS regeneration, how long do think it would take for regrowth from C-6 to return of sexual function to occur?

[KyleP2112]

Dr. Wise,
Thank you for your detailed response. I didn't know about the advantages of using umbilical cord blood stem cells.
Do these advantages apply to chronic injuries too? I wonder; will chronic injuries take longer to fix than newer acute injuries or not necessarily?
Kyle

[Barrington314mx]

When i first started reading on here, I was reading that these trials would be coming to the US in 2012. Now im seeing the 2014 thrown around.

[Jim]

We are pushing for next year Barrington.

[muskie]

We are pushing for next year Barrington.

Where is Barrington? What happened to Kessler?

[Chassmain]

Mike,

I am sorry that you feel like that, you can ignore my posts if they disturb you, which I can understand.
You could also consider to pay more attention to what I write, dig into it and maybe in a while you may agree with some of my posts.

In any case keep hope alive, if I am affecting your hope "send me to hell"

Paolo

Paolo,
Thanks for the message back; I realize I may have come off rather strong.

I am well-educated on this topic (it is my life after all) and pay close attention to what you and others have to say. I know you take the standpoint of clarity and trying to keep the record straight, but sometimes it seems more like picking apart minute details and taking Dr. Young’s words out of context in a way to press him and sometimes try to discredit his work. That is not okay, and the opposite of what we should be trying to do as a community.

We should be supporting him, appreciating whatever information he is willing to provide, not barrading him with a query of endless questions that take him away from his work, and thank him from the very bottom of our hearts.
-Mike

[lunasicc42]

Where is Barrington? What happened to Kessler?

No, muskie, he was replying to the person named Barrington

[muskie]

No, muskie, he was replying to the person named Barrington

Thanks for the clarification, I was wondering why Barrington animal hospital had anything to do with this. I am an idiot

[lynnifer]

ChinaSCINet Update

... sometimes it seems more like picking apart minute details and taking Dr. Young’s words out of context in a way to press him and sometimes try to discredit his work. That is not okay, and the opposite of what we should be trying to do as a community.

We should be supporting him, appreciating whatever information he is willing to provide, not barrading him with a query of endless questions that take him away from his work, and thank him from the very bottom of our hearts.
-Mike

That's sweet but Dr Young himself has said we should question everything, including other researchers.

Keeping quiet doesn't work as the last 67yrs have proven (we have survived since WWII). We need more Paolos to hold their feet to the fire.

Dr Young brought Methylprednisolone to trial and a treatment for acutes but it is still not used as a standard of care for whatever reason, especially in Canada.

I too, hope he's onto something but I find that doubtful during the first time out ... and that's okay. What worries me is that I don't see many lining up with proposed treatments???

[Wise Young]

Dr. Young,

I want to thank you for all your hardwork, dedication, and tireless efforts to find a way to someday make us even a little bit better. I admire your commitment, openness, and compassion and hope that someday we can walk side-by-side down the street. You and those who work beside you give me hope every day.

I thank you for that!
-Mike

Mike, thank you very much. Your message means a lot to me.

Wise.