ChinaSCINet Update

[ineedmyelin]

Why Acutes and not Chronics

saw the video again. happy with all that dr young is doing BUT why start with acutes? cant wait til he starts on chronics.

always good to hear him mention "chase", "cethrin".

[Jim]

Dr Young's trials are mainly for chronics but acutes have also been added to the mix. Extra cells shouldn't go to waste!

[KofQ]

I was very encouraged by the facts that UCB is a good source of MUSE cells and that lithium can regulate the pten-mtor pathway, rather than having to delete the pten gene.

[khmorgan]

... BUT why start with acutes?

Pros: Far less physical therapy and less first year of injury expense.

Cons: Many will get better with only physical therapy.

Question: If an acute does not recover, might not a clever lawyer blame it on the treatment rather than the injury?

Personal opinion: If there were a "cure" as Dr. Young defines it (i.e. not a full recovery, but enough to look normal), how many people would go back to what they were doing before, versus remaining on disability. I think a lot of decision makers believe there wouldn't be all that much savings from a treatment for chronics. True or not, we need to tell them there would be a saving to lessening chronic SCI suffering.

[Barrington314mx]

Question: If an acute does not recover, might not a clever lawyer blame it on the treatment rather than the injury?

im sure they have their bases covered. and you will be signing your name on multiple lines.

[#LHB#]

I hope Dr Young's trial goes good and has great success, but I was very happy when he talked about it having a chance to relieve us from nerve pain. If it would do away with nerve pain it would be a success in my opinion.

[khmorgan]

If it would do away with nerve pain it would be a success in my opinion.

AMEN!! Nerve pain has ruled my life for almost 50 years!

Then again, maybe I would miss it. After hurting for so long, I'm not sure I wouldn't miss it. What the hell, I'd take my chances.

[Geoman]

Lithium and Neuropathic Pain Research Paper

Wise, during your April Open House seminar you mentioned that the results regarding the effects of oral lithuim on neuropathic (central) pain from the ChinaSCINet trials have been published. However, I'm unable to find the paper anywhere. Would you be able to let me know where it has been published or, if possible, provide a copy of this paper.

Thanks,
Geoman

[Jim]

Geoman,

Until Wise chimes in, I pulled this from an old Open House video.

40 SCI Patients at China Rehabilitation Research Center. Double blind randomized- 6 weeks lithium/placebo.

Lithium significantly reduced Neuropathic Pain, particularly those patients with severe pain. 1/2 of the treated group reported Visual Analog Scale (VAS) rating of 50 or above. Almost all of these patients had a drop of 40 - 50% in VAS.

[Geoman]

Wise, Jim or anyone in the know, what is the next step in regard to the lithium and treatment for neuropathic pain. This sounds very promising and I would like to be able to give it a go asap. I'm not sure if oral lithium can be prescided off-label and if so how we can go about it. I was thinking of taking a copy of the research paper, which I still haven't been able to find, to my pain doc to see if he can help. Any advice on this would be appreciated, it so hard to have to endure this pain knowing that there is possibly something out there that could help!

I'm not sure if I should be starting a new thread in the pain forum for this query or not.

Geoman

[Jim]

Geoman,

Unfortunately, the trial is only in the planning stages as far as I know. Wise is gone for a few weeks but I'll write to him to see what I can get that has been written up.

*Lithium can be fatal if taken improperly.

[Geoman]

Thanks Jim. I must have misunderstood, I thought that Wise had said this work had been completed. I thought it was all a bit quick for the dedicated clinical trial on Lithium for neuro pain to have been completed. Don't worry, I'll hang in there until the required work has been done. I sure do hope that something can be done soon though.

Geoman

[khmorgan]

Thanks Jim. I must have misunderstood, I thought that Wise had said this work had been completed. I thought it was all a bit quick for the dedicated clinical trial on Lithium for neuro pain to have been completed. Don't worry, I'll hang in there until the required work has been done. I sure do hope that something can be done soon though.

Geoman

In the April 6 Open House video, at 25 mins, 25 seconds, Dr. Young says:

"On the other hand, we were very surprised to find that lithium seems to reduce neuropathic pain in patients, and we have just published this study."

If the dosage is about what you get for depression, I'm thinking I'm starting to feel depressed...

[Jim]

In the April 6 Open House video, at 25 mins, 25 seconds, Dr. Young says:

"On the other hand, we were very surprised to find that lithium seems to reduce neuropathic pain in patients, and we have just published this study."

Dr. Young was referring to CN102a: Phase II Lithium Trial. I found the paper, look at the page 4/5. Geoman, you could present this to your Dr. It was published in Nature- http://www.nature.com/sc/journal/v50...sc2011126a.pdf

[khmorgan]

Dr. Young was referring to CN102a: Phase II Lithium Trial. I found the paper, look at the page 4/5. Geoman, you could present this to your Dr. It was published in Nature- http://www.nature.com/sc/journal/v50...sc2011126a.pdf

I don't have a subscription to Spinal Cord, hence no access to anymore than the abstract. Can you take a peek and tell us what dosage of lithium carbonate was used? I'm just curious.