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    Originally posted by Christopher Paddon View Post
    Wise, are there any indications that some feeling and function is returning at this early stage?

    thanks - keeping my fingers and toes crossed
    We are still on our early phase and have tried two doses of the cells. I have posted that some patients are reporting improved sensation and possible motor. Only one of the patients has had a 6 month followup exam.

    Wise.

    Comment


      Originally posted by lunasicc42 View Post
      am I a bastard for thinking that the trials have been initiated long enough ago that we should know if umbilical cord blood + lithium + methyl should already be known if it's yielding positive results?
      Be patient. It is too early to tell. About all that we can say right now is that the procedure appears to be safe. Wise.

      Comment


        I think it's very encouraging that there are even small indicators at this early stage, especially if it is low dose

        Comment


          I don't think any patients have gotten lithium or methylprednisone yet, much less the full dose of cells.

          Comment


            Originally posted by KofQ View Post
            I don't think any patients have gotten lithium or methylprednisone yet, much less the full dose of cells.

            Wise, whats the Treatment "up to", haven't the highest said doses of ucbmc + mp and lithium already been commenced
            "That's not smog! It's SMUG!! " - randy marsh, southpark

            "what???? , you don't 'all' wear a poop sac?.... DAMNIT BONNIE, YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THE POOP SAC!!!! "


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            Comment


              Neuronal replacement therapies

              Dr. Wise:

              Please let me know what this is.

              Thanks!

              Comment


                Originally posted by Illinois1966 View Post
                Dr. Wise:

                Please let me know what this is.

                Thanks!
                with a do respect, why dont you use the "google search" option at the top right of the page?
                you'll have the option to search within this site or the www. i dont speak for dr young but he is pretty busy globe trotting this planet of ours setting up, running sci clinical trials. he has explained neuronal replacement therapy many times, so many times that he often refers one to use the search option to look at the vast amount of info.

                not being hard on anyone, just trying to turn you onto a wealth of information that the good dr has provided us.
                Last edited by ineedmyelin; 4 Aug 2011, 2:37 PM. Reason: edit
                "I'm manic as hell-
                But I'm goin' strong-
                Left my meds on the sink again-
                My head will be racing by lunchtime"

                <----Scott Weiland---->

                Comment


                  Originally posted by lunasicc42 View Post
                  Wise, whats the Treatment "up to", haven't the highest said doses of ucbmc + mp and lithium already been commenced
                  @lunasicc42 Wise reported they have not yet tested the highest dose (16 ┬Áliters x 4 injections), which is what the next group of patients will get, the combination with a single bolus of methylprednisolone or lithium.
                  http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

                  Comment


                    New Zealand stem cell study?

                    Originally posted by GRAMMY View Post
                    @lunasicc42 Wise reported they have not yet tested the highest dose (16 ┬Áliters x 4 injections), which is what the next group of patients will get, the combination with a single bolus of methylprednisolone or lithium.
                    Grammy:
                    Any info on this topic. I'm not sure if anyone has heard about this press release
                    recently about Gov. Perry, Texas
                    Rick Perry Has Stem Cell Procedure, Then Works to Bring it to Texas - NYTimes.com

                    Read it online: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...imes&seid=auto

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                    Aggie Mom 2007

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
                      We are still on our early phase and have tried two doses of the cells. I have posted that some patients are reporting improved sensation and possible motor. Only one of the patients has had a 6 month followup exam.

                      Wise.
                      How about B&B? Even that is enough for some people.....

                      And what if motor does not return, will the clinical trial continue? Have you considered very incomplete chronics who just need minor improvement? I would assume those that are very incomplete might show the study another angle, they have signals that are already traveling thru the injury site back to the brain, perhaps stem cells to those indiv will show scientist something new if all else fails?
                      Last edited by Imight; 6 Aug 2011, 11:21 AM.

                      Comment


                        imight,

                        what if you received the therapy and you ended up with decreased function or sensation because the therapy injured your uninjured axons?

                        dr. young has stated this is a first step.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by nrf View Post
                          imight,

                          what if you received the therapy and you ended up with decreased function or sensation because the therapy injured your uninjured axons?

                          dr. young has stated this is a first step.
                          there's a risk in all clinical trials. most people have uninjured axons thus the reason most get spasms upon touch, pain or temp.

                          I would assume the least damage, the least cells needed, the quicker recovery time, from there build up from a chart. Of course acute is still the best hands down, I would assume a chronic incomplete would be an easier task after. just seems the cells aren't kicking in motor, but what if the motor is partially there and boosted by stem cells? that could teach us a lot, possibly give us an idea on how many cells from minimum to maximum and to what effect, on what amount of damage.

                          Comment


                            i think the thought process might be - if it helps asia a injuries it should be as beneficial to the injured axons in asia b,c and d.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by nrf View Post
                              i think the thought process might be - if it helps asia a injuries it should be as beneficial to the injured axons in asia b,c and d.
                              that's what it is right now, but it's not looking good. I'd rather not have the entire trial scrapped without a crack at us, which could atleast add to data is where I'm getting at. at the very least we have signals going past the injury site AND we're chronics.

                              It might take a couple of years for these individuals to show motor recovery. An incomplete is already at max physical, at that point it's just seeing what wakes up and rolling. Motor seems the biggest issue, but why? nobody knows. What if we apply that question to someone that already has motor intact, meaning the signal already flows. If motors recovers in incomplete we will know for sure it may have something to do with the amount of damage at the injury site.

                              In other words, before concluding and scrapping, can we get a lick at least? to add to the over all conclusion.

                              Inject both, see if the conclusion follows...

                              Patient complete: No motor gain

                              Patient incomplete: motor gain

                              conclusion: Stem cells are not getting through the injury site completely, but when it can, it works. If Patient incomplete does not get gains, conclusion: this therapy does not help with motor at all, new question: why?
                              Last edited by Imight; 6 Aug 2011, 12:29 PM.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Imight View Post
                                that's what it is right now, but it's not looking good. I'd rather not have the entire trial scrapped without a crack at us, which could atleast add to data is where I'm getting at. at the very least we have signals going past the injury site AND we're chronics.

                                It might take a couple of years for these individuals to show motor recovery. An incomplete is already at max physical, at that point it's just seeing what wakes up and rolling. Motor seems the biggest issue, but why? nobody knows. What if we apply that question to someone that already has motor intact, meaning the signal already flows. If motors recovers in incomplete we will know for sure it may have something to do with the amount of damage at the injury site.

                                In other words, before concluding and scrapping, can we get a lick at least? to add to the over all conclusion.


                                Inject both, see if the conclusion follows...

                                Patient complete: No motor gain

                                Patient incomplete: motor gain

                                conclusion: Stem cells are not getting through the injury site completely, but when it can, it works. If Patient incomplete does not get gains, conclusion: this therapy does not help with motor at all, new question: why?
                                I believe the main reason the trials are not aimed at incompletes is there are too many variables. An incomplete injury has no amount of recovery time frame(I've heard and seen people 10+ years that have started regaining function through intensive rehabilitation(Lokomat training). Therefore, it's to hard to tell if the stem cells and growth factors could be gaining motor function or maybe intensive rehab and/or time...

                                At least with completes after two years post, there are no instances that I know of, that the patient has recovered any function. If they did recover anything it was probably b/c they were not truly a "complete" injury.

                                After testing a complete injury and/If the patient recovers function they(Scientists/ Clinicians) know what to attribute the recovery to.. Not intensive rehab alone.

                                One of the most promising things I've heard of besides Frank Reynolds with Invivo, is in China the early decompression(on Acute) and intensive rehabilitation is converting nearly half of patients from Asia A to B and even C.

                                This is amazing news and I've never read or heard such a thing... Doctors in the states don't go near the dura b/c they are so old school and are very worried about causing further damage. They believe what you got is paralysis and learn to live with it.

                                There are to many incomplete "feel good stories" i.e., Patient told he would never walk again and through the right mind-set and hard-ass rehab he was capable. Not true of ANY Asia A patient after two years. This info is very misleading to the public.

                                I think where I'm going w/ this is once Asia A is solved it will be easily transferred to Asia B and C and so on.. At least w/ testing Asia A there are not as many variables..

                                We need more COLLABORATION between Scientists/Clinicians!!!!!
                                Donnie: Dr. Xiao, What are your thoughts on a cure/combination therapy for SCI's??
                                CG Xiao: Donnie, I don't want to disappoint you, but I think it is impossible to restore the continuity of the cord or "bridge the gap" in the near future, let's say: 50 years. Dr Wise Young has been my most respected scientist in SCI. He has dedicated and contributed to SCI no other can match.

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