ChinaSCINet Update

[tomsonite]

Jim, do you know much about where the methodology of Centro Giusti came from? A lot of their equipment looks similar to what was used in the old Dikul centers. I looked into their equipment a few years ago when I was still working in NJ, but it never came together for our facility to purchase any of the equipment unfortunately.

[niallel]

Has there been any thoughts on when the training should start after the cells are implanted?

I suppose if its because of the cells then its not worth starting until they have started to do something? Or is this not how it works?

[Barrington314mx]

Thanks for sharing that Jim. Cool idea they have there. Still I wonder if that is bad on the PT's back? Too bad there isn't a device to be used to lock that knee in place on each step.

[lampros]

Thank you very much for your quick response, i ll look through it

[ivanoperetti]

I hope Chinascinet have more scientific evidences than Centro Giusti.... It's incredible that after 20 years approches to Sci are still the same....
https://www.nextquotidiano.it/la-str...terapia-dikul/

[tomsonite]

I hope Chinascinet have more scientific evidences than Centro Giusti.... It's incredible that after 20 years approches to Sci are still the same....
https://www.nextquotidiano.it/la-str...terapia-dikul/

Thanks for posting ivanoperetti. I had to read the English translation through google, so I'm not sure I read the full story, but if I understand correctly, the article is saying that Centro Giusti uses the Dikul method? And, the Italian supreme court ruled that the Italian National Health Services will not pay for the cost of Centro Giusti? Is this correct?

[ivanoperetti]

Yes, it's correct.

[skeaman]

Hi I am looking for information on this . Can anyone help me
here is there link below

"" Unique Access: Epidural Stimulation
for Spinal Cord Injury in Bangkok ""

[Jim]

Has there been any thoughts on when the training should start after the cells are implanted?

I suppose if its because of the cells then its not worth starting until they have started to do something? Or is this not how it works?

I think the better shape you are in and the more training you have done prior to receiving the cells, easier it will be to recover.

[niallel]

Thanks Jim, I that makes sense. However training before would probably be standard stuff.
The walking training will be much more resource intensive and expensive, what I was wondering was that if the cells start working a month after being implanted then there would be no point doing the expensive training for that month - so costing less.
I imagine health providers would want to know this as well - they will want to do the minimum to get the maximum.

[Natyb]

Hello
i'm french quad complete c5c6 and i had the oeg transplant with dr lima in 2007 and then i went to centro giusti for 7months and then i bought the walker and various equipments they had in the center and i follow the program 1 year at home.it Was hard rehab.but z?ro results
That makes me thinking,if dr wise had results in china, the cells and how they are delivered are the key of the problem.
I think rehab in centro giusti is one of the best but alone it doesn' t work

[lampros]

Natyb i agree, first the cells then rehab, as dr Wise said.

[Jim]

Hello
i'm french quad complete c5c6 and i had the oeg transplant with dr lima in 2007 and then i went to centro giusti for 7months and then i bought the walker and various equipments they had in the center and i follow the program 1 year at home.it Was hard rehab.but z?ro results
That makes me thinking,if dr wise had results in china, the cells and how they are delivered are the key of the problem.
I think rehab in centro giusti is one of the best but alone it doesn' t work

Tongren Hospital in Kunming is presently conducting a clinical trial consisting of 60 complete subjects. Half are randomized to untethering surgery + 6-6-6 walking training, other half to 6-6-6 training only. Preliminary results are pointing to 25% in each group regaining the ability to 'walk' using an upper body supporting rolling device. If the subjects in this trial were then given the cell injections + walking training as in the ChinaSCINet Phase II trial, would their recovery be more robust?

[Natyb]

I was also walking with the same device but for me it wasn't walking. It wasn't my legs that makes me go ahead but the muscles that i was working all the day of my upper body and how m'y upper body was fixed in the device that put my legs in front. When you saw me in vid?o it seems that i was walking but it was only compensation.
all depends on what you mean by walking, for me it's when you Stand up alone and walk moving the muscles of your legs

[Mize]

I "walk" twice a week using a variety of equipment and PT assistance. Parallel bars, Walker, an crutches then either KFAOs or a PT to block knees and assist with swing since I have zero dorsiflexion. Most of my "walking" is flinging my legs ahead with hip motion initiated in my arms. I do have some hip flexors, but not near what the videos indicate. So walking improvement is, IMO, a terrible measure of success unless you've already trained and plateaued with regard to the various tricks. By just walking scores I could easily claim success of any underlying therapy, but it's 99% technique, not recovery.