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    Hi Jim,
    in your US IIb Trial the enrolment is open to foreign people?
    Thanks.

    Ivano

    Comment


      Originally posted by taymas View Post
      Would be great to hear from Jim as well in regards to cost, but I imagine it's too soon to run the numbers.
      Regards
      We are estimating the cost for the Phase IIb trial will be $150K per patient. If I had an Asia A injury and unlimited funds I would wait until the results of the Phase IIb US/India trials are available. The results of the ChinaSCINet Phase II must be repeated. If approved, insurance will pay.

      Originally posted by Chaz19 View Post
      As a follow-up, the money that was raised w/ the 'just a dollar a day' campaign. Was this earmarked or set aside for the upcoming US trials?
      After working and helping you on the past webs I know that there was a significant amount of money raised. Will there be a new campaign or will this be reinvigorated?

      I would like to share this news with all the people who I personally reached out for donations years ago and to let them know the results. Many have been asking for years and it's great to finally have some news.
      Hey Chaz, money for the trials has been earmarked, investors have stepped up, and there is a plan underway to fund many future trials. We can't let $ hold up doing what needs to be done.

      We recently sent out our Spring mailing which you will receive shortly (Bulk mail moves slowly). Wise wrote a complete summary that is perfect for your supporters.

      Originally posted by ivanoperetti View Post
      Hi Jim,
      in your US IIb Trial the enrolment is open to foreign people?
      Thanks.
      Ivano
      Ivano, I'm not sure yet.

      The Phase IIb trial will consist of only 27 subjects, I don't expect we will have any trouble filling the spots. Remember, a critical part of any trial is follow-up visits at different time points. Subject would have to pay to stay in US during the trial, also to come back a few times.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Jim View Post
        If approved, insurance will pay.

        What makes you sound so sure Jim? Private insurance, medicaid, medicare? I'm sure this would have to be a case by case basis, right? A guy like myself where they basically pay for part of my catheter supply and 2 check up visits a year, what makes them want to spend $150k on a therapy that could go wrong and cost more to save my life?
        Thank you for replying as much as you can. If anyone else has more experience or knowledge on this subject, please reply.

        Comment


          I believe as part of Michigan's Auto No-Fault law, the cost to cover such a trial would be covered. I had also read several years ago that my health insurance would also cover the cost. I may need to see if that is true, but I may be fortunate enough to have two possible sources that would cover the costs.
          DaDutchman
          C5/C6 since 2007 due to car accident

          Comment


            Originally posted by Jim View Post
            Hey Chaz,

            To my knowledge there has been no change in hand/finger dexterity.
            In the upcoming IIb trials the subjects will be using stim units on hands/ankles to promote return of function.l
            I believe all muscles must be exercised in order to reestablish connections to return function.
            For example, the eight patients in Hong Kong received cell transplants and no intense physical therapy/6-6-6 walking program. None of them had return of function despite showing growth across the injury site at
            one year. Exercise is a must, now we need to figure out how much is necessary.
            Wow, exercise-stimulation a must was/has been an established factoid for years now..
            That's really unfortunate for both party's involved. Study & patients..hmm.
            I find that really bizarre though with visible growth/connection, not an iota of anything was seen as far as return..that's the Baseline/Science Fiction/now Fact achievement reached that forces re-animation?!

            And from the nature of the injury/levels/ with quads, hands/fingers come in @ C-7/ isn't it?
            Even w/o vigorous exercise, it is an intricate part but not a major muscle, that would feasibly be the first enacted area to see response w/ new nerve growth..
            Doesn't that make sense?
            Referncing quadrapalegia..
            Aren't you gonna see a say Top to Bottom sense of Return since it's a level based physiology system..precisely where your injured is precisely where muscle groups/organs entact..??

            Actually I've maintained that view since those semi-new Restorative Therapy bikes came out.. when brand new a quadrapalegia girl was using one religiously weekly and quoted was, " slowly were seeing her hands unfreezing"

            Guess more time0 study will tell..or a new bridge is a new bridge. Everything's feasibly online, just needs to be re-woken/ animated..all at once through full on exercise regiment like being discussed...
            Last edited by Stormycoon; 20 May 2016, 4:57 PM.
            I am not your rolling wheels
            I am the highway
            I am not your carpet ride
            I am the sky
            I am not your blowing wind
            I am the lightning
            I am not your autumn moon
            I am the night, the night..

            Comment


              When I was doing OT within a year after being injured, we concentrated on getting my hand and fingers working. At that time I asked my therapist about my chances in getting full hand function. She stated that I would probably walk before I regained complete hand function. She said the reason was because there are so many nerves and muscles in the hand compared to the legs. I was also informed that return of function did not necessarily happen in a top down order. One PT therapist cited a patient of hers that could walk, but did not only not have hand function, but did not have sensation in their leg. I was wondering if the nerves in the spine reconnected like wires in an electrical cabinet. You know, red to red, yellow to yellow, blue to blue, etc. and if so, how did the body know which ones to connect to. To me that is the biggest mystery of how stem cells will aid in correctly connecting the nerves on each side of the damaged area.
              DaDutchman
              C5/C6 since 2007 due to car accident

              Comment


                Originally posted by DaDutchman View Post
                I was wondering if the nerves in the spine reconnected like wires in an electrical cabinet. You know, red to red, yellow to yellow, blue to blue, etc. and if so, how did the body know which ones to connect to. To me that is the biggest mystery of how stem cells will aid in correctly connecting the nerves on each side of the damaged area..
                That's a great question. I don't think scientist know that either. First is how to regenerate and then make the right connections. That's the whole puzzle I guess. Maybe stem cells in their genes have that recognition. There are clinical studies in humans with different kinds of stem cells and I assume that wrong connections might have negative reactions from the body from pain to tumor but none of these studies have been stopped due to any adverse reaction. Hope nerves recognize the correct nerves across the injury site.

                Comment


                  One might think that wrong connections could be trained owing to neuroplasticity in the brain...?
                  T3 complete since Sept 2015.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Mize View Post
                    One might think that wrong connections could be trained owing to neuroplasticity in the brain...?
                    Hope you are right and what you say makes sense

                    Comment


                      To be honest the improvements in walking scores don't persuade me. I'm an ASIA A, complete, T7 and I'm now walking with parallel bars with one PT assisting and afos. That's a pretty decent walking score. I guess I'm saying that it's possible that much or even most of the improvements aren't from stem cells but rather the intense PT effort. I'll be far more optimistic if there's solid evidence of axon growth, bridging and reconnection.
                      T3 complete since Sept 2015.

                      Comment


                        PT is a big part of Dr. Wise's method with stem cells. As Jim earlier responded that people who got stem cells but no PT did not improve even though there was axon growth. So PT is a big part of any future treatment.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by scimike View Post
                          PT is a big part of Dr. Wise's method with stem cells. As Jim earlier responded that people who got stem cells but no PT did not improve even though there was axon growth. So PT is a big part of any future treatment.
                          My question is how did the stem+PT do when compared to only PT?
                          T3 complete since Sept 2015.

                          Comment


                            I think Jim also answered it earlier but Stem + PT did very well. This was a phase I so they will increase stem cell amount in the next trial combination with other things (lithium etc). They did not expect much in the trial because of phase I as all phase I trials are pretty much safety studies to make sure it is safe.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Mize View Post
                              To be honest the improvements in walking scores don't persuade me. I'm an ASIA A, complete, T7 and I'm now walking with parallel bars with one PT assisting and afos. That's a pretty decent walking score. I guess I'm saying that it's possible that much or even most of the improvements aren't from stem cells but rather the intense PT effort. I'll be far more optimistic if there's solid evidence of axon growth, bridging and reconnection.
                              Originally posted by DaDutchman View Post
                              When I was doing OT within a year after being injured, we concentrated on getting my hand and fingers working. At that time I asked my therapist about my chances in getting full hand function. She stated that I would probably walk before I regained complete hand function. She said the reason was because there are so many nerves and muscles in the hand compared to the legs. I was also informed that return of function did not necessarily happen in a top down order. One PT therapist cited a patient of hers that could walk, but did not only not have hand function, but did not have sensation in their leg. I was wondering if the nerves in the spine reconnected like wires in an electrical cabinet. You know, red to red, yellow to yellow, blue to blue, etc. and if so, how did the body know which ones to connect to. To me that is the biggest mystery of how stem cells will aid in correctly connecting the nerves on each side of the damaged area.
                              Oh wow thnxs.. that's how I've ever formed my own view, well guess since there is no data..!
                              Forming a generalization of such makes sense in my mind though as that's initially how they paint it out whence your hurt...
                              "boom ok your a C-5-6m.. Thats where biceps, shoulders, wrist extensors come in/on"....thEn they educate you of the leveled nervous/spinal system..
                              18 month window of possible return, hmm only logically natural i think to count the connection levels//return groups that head down the spine...
                              Or something like that...
                              I am not your rolling wheels
                              I am the highway
                              I am not your carpet ride
                              I am the sky
                              I am not your blowing wind
                              I am the lightning
                              I am not your autumn moon
                              I am the night, the night..

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Nowhere Man View Post
                                Might be rather dangerous (& bulky) using a roller near a wet shower when you can't feel your legs (assumption) or voluntarily move legs.
                                I'll risk it. Sign me up!

                                Comment

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