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    I apologize if I've asked this question before, but is arm and hand restoration a higher hanging fruit than locomotion?

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      Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
      There was no change in motor and sensory scores.
      ....

      Wise.
      Wise,

      I understood that there was no changes in motor and sensory scores, but my question was: what is the current motor and sensory score of the individual showed in the video?

      Paolo
      In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

      Comment


        Originally Posted by mamadavid [IMG]/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG]
        Hello,

        Although your question was for Dr Young I'll take the liberty of replying to the best of my ability. I had the privilege of meeting Dr Zhu and observing her walking programme last March. I also visited the new private hospital where she has since transferred her operation. The hospital is called Tongren Hospital and is part of a group of private hospitals in China owned by a Hong Kong businessman. The facility is brand new and was partially up and running when I visited. It is huge and modern. I was given a guided tour by the assistant general manager and it seemed to be well equipped with the latest medical hardware. I was shown the VIP rooms and VIP suites where I was told the overseas patients would stay -- good beds, accessible bathrooms, flat screen TVs, nicely decorated -- no cause for complaint. However, as I pointed out to Dr Zhu, most if not all of the overseas patients who will be interested in attending her walking programme will be chronically injured people who will not need or want to stay in a hospital room. They will be there for the rehab and apart from that will be "normal" people living in a "normal" way. As far as I could see the VIP rooms and suites were for the hospital as a whole, not just for Dr Zhu's patients, so one can assume that they will be accommodating very sick people, people recovering from surgery, etc., and needing a very quiet, very medicalised environment. I told Dr Zhu that the people who would be coming from overseas for the walking programme would probably be happier with another type of accommodation -- say apartments where they could share equipment and carers, cook, listen to music, etc. She has since written to me (my son is planning to attend her programme at the end of the summer) that she is planning on offering foreign patients pleasant, family-like living arrangements. I'm not sure what she has planned but I will be seeing her on June 12 and will get all the details from her.
        I cannot tell you how impressed I was with Dr Zhu and her team. Never have I seen a more caring, positive, altruistic person than Dr Zhu (apart from Wise Young of course!). Seeing her patients at various stages of walking was such an inspiration and I am convinced that her programme is the best next step for my son.
        I know so many of you will want to know more details -- cost and duration of the programme, what kind of nursing care and assistance can be provided, etc. I can't answer these questions now but will be finding out in the next few weeks. I'll share all the answers as soon as I have them.



        is your son give us news please
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90JFifPnPY4
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiGzdFD6QWk
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqGn8qrHlXQ
        http://translate.google.fr/translate...%3D437&act=url
        Last edited by fti; 6 Feb 2013, 9:11 AM.

        Comment


          Yes, that's my son David. He has been in Kunming for a little over five months now and is making good progress. As you can see he is walking with the wheeled walker. He is now very steady on his feet and needs only some support and guidance from the two physiotherapists -- one at his side to keep his forearms properly positioned on the cart and help adjust his posture if he starts to slump or sway to one side. Behind him is Xiao Ma, the physiotherapy assistant who squats behind the patient and walks up and down the corridor while helping him to move his legs and supporting him from behind. David is at Stage 3 of the Kunming Walking Programme now -- he can stand with his knees locked and can step independently with his left leg and sometimes with his right. He walks 360 metres every day: 240 m in the morning and 120 m in the afternoon. As Dr Young has been explaining recently on this forum, people who have not reached Stage 4 of the programme cannot spend 6 hours a day walking but do a lot of other exercises. There is a lot of core work -- various kinds of sit ups and other exercises on the physiotherapy table. Lots of stretching too. The physiotherapists put together a programme for each patient and add and change things as needed.

          Comment


            mamadavid, can you tell us your son's level? Have you seen significant progress? Any other improvements? Also what the cost are? Sorry for all the questions I also have a son who is a quad
            Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature

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              I am also c5c6 neurological

              Comment


                David has a C5 (orthopaedic level) injury. He was injured three and a half years ago and has always been doing some form of intensive rehab since he was well enough (he spent a long time in ICU and also had a traumatic brain injury so it took a long time before he was fit to do anything). He is very pleased with his progress and I feel that he has made more progress in the five months he has been in Kunming than at any other time. What strikes me about their approach is their thoroughness and persistence -- whereas in other hospitals the physiotherapists tried sitting David on the physio table a few times and then seemed to forget about it, the therapists in Kunming started training David to sit shortly after he arrived and have kept at it every single day. Just one example.
                The costs can vary a bit -- in the five months since he has been here David has had a few minor colds, UTIs and stomach upsets, for which he was treated by the doctors at the hospital, and there have been some MRIs and X-rays as well as lab tests which increase the overall cost from time to time. I think the cost averages around 15,000 RMB a month -- this includes a room (he only uses it during the day for resting, catheterising, etc. as we have an apartment nearby, but all the other patients stay at the hospital) and the whole physiotherapy programme. There are some other costs as well: everyone hires a caregiver privately as the hospital nurses do not routinely do things like bathing, dressing, catheterising, etc. The caregiver and/or the patient's relatives help with the physiotherapy as well.
                For those interested in the programme I think it's important to bear in mind that it's not a miracle cure -- Dr Zhu has always been very clear about that, insisting that one must have patience and persistence and take a long view. As David is so clearly moving in the right direction he is prepared to stay as long as he continues to make progress, however slow.
                I had been holding off talking about the programme on the forum as space and staff are quite limited still. Until the spinal injury centre moves into its new, larger premises (the hospital is very new and the new centre is still being finished and equipped) it will not be able to accommodate large numbers of new patients. I hope this helps. If anyone has other questions I'll submit them to Dr Zhu and put her responses on the forum. My son is working on a website on which he will talk about his experience in Kunming and answer questions from people interested in the programme. I'll let you know when it goes live.

                Comment


                  have you found it again OF new muscles?

                  15000 RMB THAT 1800 EURO GOOD PRICE
                  Last edited by fti; 6 Feb 2013, 12:56 PM.

                  Comment


                    Firstly, thank you for sharing. I take it David is only doing the physio and did not undergo the UMBC treatment correct? My son has also been in intense rehab since he 3 weeks after his accident 18 months ago. He now goes to Push to Walk here in the States about 3 days a week and they also have him in a pulpit walker for about 45 minutes. Unfortunately that is a week the other times he is on a weight supported treadmill and doing other exercises the other times. The biggest gains I have seen so far have been mentally he just seems to be in a better mindset, he has also gotten a little stronger and his endurance is also improved. I wish your son and you the very best and hope and prayer for continued success and progress.

                    Kevin
                    Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature

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                      fti, it's difficult to say if David has gained function in muscles where there was none before. It may be that the existing potential of these muscles had not been fully revealed by other rehabilitation programmes and that they have now been awakened and strengthened by the exercises he has been doing in Kunming. David has always had a bit of voluntary movement in his legs and had been doing weight supported walking for a long time. Since he has been in Kunming he has gained so much more balance and is able to do standing transfers very easily now.

                      Comment


                        Muskie, David was not part of the UCMBC+lithium clinical trials. He would like to be included in the Phase III trials but I don't think he would qualify as he is ASIA C and also had a traumatic brain injury.

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                          So the guy in the video was an incomplete before going to Kunming? And he received no cells/lithium?
                          And by "the guy in the video", I mean the guy in the video from Dr. Young's February open house. The guy who was walking with a walker, a nurse, and ropes on his legs.

                          Comment


                            No, that was a person who had received stem cells at the army hospital.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Wise Young View Post
                              The video I showed was an individual at 12 months after receiving UCBMC cell transplant. The person was about 4 years after injury when he received the transplant. This person did not have big changes in motor or sensory scores.

                              .
                              This appears to conflict with "Mamadavid's" posts. She seems to be saying that the man in the video is her son. Who was about four years into his injury, but received no cells. And went to China as an incomplete. This seems to be a key point. What's going on?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by mamadavid View Post
                                No, that was a person who had received stem cells at the army hospital.
                                Thank you for clearing that up. I was starting to fear that Paolo was right.

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