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    Possible new trial in spain.

    Dr. Young.

    I would like you to read this report on the Dr. Vaquero´s research at the Hospital Puerta de Hierro in Madrid, please give us a review on his investigations and the intention to initiate clinical trials.

    Regards.

    http://www.apinme.org/documentos/com...torVaquero.pdf

    #2
    aprain,

    I read these absracts a few years ago. There was a thread on this forum discussing this work. Note the rat study was conducted in 2006 and the pig study was conducted in 2008.

    Can't remember the specific reason, but Dr. Young indicated some descrepancies in the data and if I remember correctly, and he indicated said the outcome was not valid.

    A few things are quite evident in the abstracts: 1) The "scar" in the chronic lesion site did not impede regeneration 2) Attaining a BBB score of 17.7 out of 21 is huge. 3) The fact this work progressed to a larger animal with continued success is significant.

    Wonder what, if anything, is going on with possible application to humans? If this is in fact what it appears to be . . . . . . . .

    Comment


      #3
      Schmeky,

      Thought you might find this interesting. At this website, they have some information regarding whats going on in Spain. They have questions for Dr. Devesa and his answers (in Spanish for now...) about the GH clinical trial they are trying to do in Toledo.


      Preguntas formuladas al Dr. Devesa y a Toledo sobre ensayo clínico con GH (Questions for Dr. Devesa and Toledo about the clinical trial with GH)

      http://www.firsn.com/index.php?optio...d=5&Itemid=140

      Comment


        #4
        WhisisJohnGalt,

        Appreciate the additional info. I wonder if some of our members in Spain could obtain some updated info?

        Comment


          #5
          Update:
          No money no trial.

          Comment


            #6
            Kim, looks like to me a too negative opinion. Even they are collecting funds.

            As for the GH trials they are initiatory totally different and independent

            Comment


              #7
              Dr Vaquero´s trials is stuck for long while with some strange foundation that it is collecting the cash at the begining the were a sort of secret group that didn´t want publicity now it seems they have seen that way no cash , so now the have changed strategy and anyone can donate. I really don´t understand this absurd approach.

              Comment


                #8
                KIM,

                Thanks for the info. I know you and I pm'ed concerning this research in the past. If this is what it appears to be, this is currently the best thing going for chronics I am aware of. A pigs spinal cord is physically much closer to a humans in size, so positive results in this model is important.

                It's always a money issue, namely a lack of. Two years is to long to fund raise and have nothing. Please keep us updated.

                Comment


                  #9
                  This critique is from 1-23-2006 concerning the work of Vaquero:

                  Originally posted by Young
                  I want to correct my critique below. The authors of the paper had transplanted the rats at 3 months after injury and showed the results of the BBB and cold spray test monthly for 6 months after transplantation. So, the data of the first three months, which I had assumed was pre-transplantation, was not really pre-transplantation. I retract that objection although I would have liked to have seen what the pre-transplantation recovery of the animals were in the intraspinal and the venous infusion groups.

                  I want to point out another puzzling part of the methods section. In the paper, the authors pointed out that they injected 50 microliters of cell suspension into the spinal cord. I think that this must be in error as well for the following reasons. First, 50 microliters is 50 cubic mm. That is a huge volume to be injecting into the thoracic spinal cord, which is a cylinder that is approximately 3.5 mm in diameter normally. I don't think that is it possible to inject that large an amount into the spinal cord. Second, one usually has 200,000 cells per µliter in a typical suspension. Perhaps they injected 15 microliters of cell suspension rather than 50 microliters.

                  Concerning what to do about papers that one thinks have flaws, one has to write the journal and, if they consider the comments to be meritorious, they will publish the letter. That is the usual route by which one discusses papers that have been published. It is the same, I suppose, as when one sees an inaccurate article being published in the New York Times or other newspapers. Readers should comment if they there is an error. I need to think about this a bit more and then write something to the journal.

                  Wise.
                  My question is, this 2006 study with rats was conducted with pigs in 2008 in the publication entitled:

                  Functional Recovery of Chronic Paraplegia Pigs After Autologous Transplantation of Bone Marrow Stromal Cells (2008)

                  What is your scientific evaluation of this publication?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    KIM: are you refering to apinme? I'm just curious.

                    I agree there's still no money for Vaquero's trial, as they said they are about half million short.

                    Regarding growth hormone, it's on hold from a government order because of its unproven safety. I don't think this starting anytime sooner than next year.
                    Don't ask what clinical trials can do for you, ask what you can do for clinical trials.

                    Fenexy: Proyecto Volver a Caminar

                    http://www.fenexy.org (soon in english too)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It about time we start our homework here in Spain and see how far can we get with that 1/2 million you say I think it´s less. I don´t have first hand data.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by 0xSquidy View Post
                        Regarding growth hormone, it's on hold from a government order because of its unproven safety. I don't think this starting anytime sooner than next year.
                        Ox.

                        The GH trials begins next september,´not next year.


                        Originally posted by KIM View Post
                        It about time we start our homework here in Spain and see how far can we get with that 1/2 million you say I think it´s less. I don´t have first hand data.
                        Kim,

                        You can see this interview to the president of the organization. He sais they have to collect abotu half million Euros

                        http://www.apinme.org/index.php/todas-las-noticias/42-ultimas-noticias/59-video-entrevista.html

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by 0xSquidy View Post
                          Regarding growth hormone, it's on hold from a government order because of its unproven safety. I don't think this starting anytime sooner than next year.
                          Ox.

                          The GH trials begins next september,´not next year.


                          Originally posted by KIM View Post
                          It about time we start our homework here in Spain and see how far can we get with that 1/2 million you say I think it´s less. I don´t have first hand data.
                          Kim,

                          You can see this interview to the president of the organization. He sais they have to collect abotu half million Euros

                          http://www.apinme.org/index.php/toda...ntrevista.html

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Aprain: I was informed by an important clinician, but obviously I can't say who's right because I haven't even spoken to Devesa about this.
                            I was told that they realized there wasn't enough pre-clinical studies on the growth hormone and this could represent real danger to the patients so they stopped it in order to review the case.
                            The only thing I know for sure is Devesa himself told me they were starting Monday 5th April, and that is 3 months ago.

                            There are things that are being done well and some things that aren't. Sometimes we have to step back a little before keep going ahead, but we're certainly closer and there are lots of positive events. Spain is waking up.
                            Don't ask what clinical trials can do for you, ask what you can do for clinical trials.

                            Fenexy: Proyecto Volver a Caminar

                            http://www.fenexy.org (soon in english too)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I've read several encouraging things coming from Spain. I personally had my hopes for an OEG human trial, but the work that's being published seems promising in these other fields. Although I'm not too excited about the GH trials because I still don't understand the logic behind it,but at least we are moving in the right direction. On one hand, a clinical trial is better than no trial, but then again randomly pushing for a trial without enough research and evidence is dangerous as well...

                              Here is where I want to get your opinion, those of you in Spain. I get the feeling that there is no unity between the different groups of scientists.
                              You have these different foundations apinme, FIRSN, ASPAYM, the Hospital Nacional de Parapléjicos in Toledo, El hospital Puerta de Hierro, and other centers centers investigating SCI or working for trials...but none of them seem to be working together.

                              On the contrary, it appears as if each scientist/group/foundation has their own "posse" or following. And they are constantly competing with one another. But perhaps this is a trend all over the world...the scientist's ego and the lack of funds. I consider these two the biggest barriers to finding a cure...

                              Why is it like this?

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