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  • Originally posted by niallel View Post
    Thanks, that makes it sound like the plan is to train lots and lots of people.

    If it happens thats great, but I imagine it will be a huge task to accomplish.

    It would make sense to run a trial group that uses a Lokomat to see if it works as well. If it works just as well it would result in a big increase in sales for them, so it would be a good investment for them to fund it.
    I've seen that the Cyberdyne HAL is being used for locomotor training as well.

    There is a trial going in the US for it https://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT03504826 - https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300607244.html

    I remember a trial that was also used in trials with VR headsets as well in Germany, but can't find the links to it.

    As it uses the signals from muscles to work, would the umbilical cord cells used in the scinet trials give people the ability to trigger the muscles?
    Or would triggering the CPG in turn cause the muscles to work, which in turn would be enhanced by the Cyberdyne HAL?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly
      There are a variety of walking programmes that focus on different aspects. For example bodyweight supported treadmill locomotor training is very different to overground walking. Again the robotic exoskeleton gait training is very different to the Kunming walking programme which in turn is very different to the other two. Simply swapping one for the other based on feasibility is doing the subtlety of the approaches a disservice. In which case it would be no different to swapping it with something that is already being delivered across the US eg Activity-based Therapy or even standard PT.

      Wise has steadfastly held onto the importance of KM 666 - I don't see why after all these years he would abandon that now - even with the obvious feasibility challenges. Unless he's conceded.
      I suppose further than that different approaches might work differently with different kinds of stem cells, or even other interventions.

      If you've seen Ready Player One then maybe there will be factories with hundreds of people hooked up to vr with walkers underneath them all training at the same time, or better still doing it at home yourself.
      For interest read about the tech coming here: http://uk.businessinsider.com/ready-...l-life-2018-3/ (TeslaSuit and Omni-Directional Treadmills)

      As usual I know I'm putting the cart before the horse. Once there is something available then I'm sure there will be more trials on the rehab options.

      Comment


      • The last I remember back in 2014 there was going to be work on creating neurons and motor neurons from Muse cells. I don't believe anything was posted or published on the outcome but I don't think Muse cells worked to create neurons and motor neurons from the ongoing work I've read from Mari Dezawa. I'm sure it would have been mentioned or pursued if that strategy had been successful. Jim did post this last year in the China thread from years ago but it's quite dated. I'm not able to find any updated information about the Muse cells and SCI experiments or other strategies they may want to implement on LMN injuries.

        Originally posted by Jim View Post
        For the past 3/4 years lumbosacral injury research has been a top priority at our lab. Wise wrote the following several years ago, much has been learned since.

        The lumbosacral spinal cord is located at T11-L1. It contains the neurons (gray matter) that innervate the muscles of the leg. Damage to the lumbosacral cord results in loss of gray matter including the neurons responsible for innervating muscle and the circuitry for reflexes and programmed movements. When you have flaccid paralysis, you don't have spasticity.

        I believe that restoring function to lumbosacral injuries will require neuronal replacement. Neural stem cells can make neurons and some animal studies suggest that they can also replace motoneurons. There are several sources of immune-compatible neural stem cells. One is induced pluripotent stem (iPS) which can be differentiated to neural stem cells. The other is autologous call pluripotent adult stem cells which can be differentiated into neural stem cells, including the MUSE cells described by Mari Dezawa.

        Please note, however, that much research still needs to be done to find out the best kind of cells to transplant to replace motoneurons, to get these cells to send axons out of the spinal cord to innervate muscle, to regenerate sensory and descending axons to connect with these neurons to reform reflex circuits, and to program the spinal cord for micturition (urination), bowel movements, walking, and other programmed motor function.

        People who have injuries to L2 or lower segments will have primarily spinal root (cauda equina) injuries. These roots need to be regenerated. Axons must be coaxed to grow into the spinal cord. Motor axons must be grown from the spinal cord into the muscle. If the injury is close to the spinal cord, motoneuronal replacement may be necessary.

        Finally, flaccidity (complete loss of muscle tone) usually results in marked atrophy of muscles. For a long time, clinicians thought that denervated muscles could not be restored. However, a group in Vienna has reported that very intense electrical stimulation of muscle can not only maintain but restore denervated muscles.

        I know that the reversal of flaccid paralysis sounds daunting but I think that we will be surprised by how flexible the spinal cord is.

        Wise
        Last edited by Jim; 07-25-2018, 01:49 PM. Reason: Edited out off-topic quotes now in Members Only Forum
        http://spinalcordresearchandadvocacy.wordpress.com/

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        • Originally posted by Moe

          Gets really tricky asking questions for updates since Dr.Wise doesn't get involved with the forum anymore with the reason giving that 'he has no access to the network'
          Moe, when you posted your request for info about the trial networks, Wise was out of the country, so I emailed your question to him and he emailed his answer back. He can't access the site in some countries. He isn't active on the site because he just doesn't have time.

          Originally posted by Moe
          It still would be nice to know about the follow-up of the IIb patients that 'live too far' I seriously don't understand how distance would be such a big obstacle for a research that was considered that important. They didn't seem that far to participate to begin with and it's hard to believe that they moved to different towns the passed 2-3 years, even if they did, there's telephones and internet to communicate in China. If you can't network with the previous patients, how would you expect to network to other SCINet countries?? Seems people care more for Rat recovery instead of the previous (human) participants? If it's classified information then fine, then say so, Id undertand... it's just the excuse 'living too far' in my opinion sounds very sloppy for a research that important.
          All of the patients completed their required follow-up exams. They didn't agree to the three year follow-up but that is being organized. Several of the subjects live in remote areas that are not accessible by car. Because of that, teams have to hike in, money is being raised to make this happen. That is what I know, Moe.

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          • Yes my mistake, you did say he was out of the country that time, still feels he doesn't get involved to the forum. As for the follow-up I'll just give it a rest for now... Thanks.
            "Talk without the support of action means nothing..."
            ― DaShanne Stokes

            ***Unite(D) to Fight Paralyses***

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            • Jim,
              Any news that you can share from the meeting? Any news from the FDA?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by #LHB# View Post
                Jim,
                Any news that you can share from the meeting? Any news from the FDA?
                Hey Lee, we are in the process of choosing a place to process the cells.

                The meeting yesterday was to work on the protocol for the 6 week outpatient training, following the surgery. Great progress toward consensus was made.

                We are getting there!

                Comment


                • I moved off-topic posts to a thread in Members Only.

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                  • Hey Jim, could there be some kind of partnership with local lodging for some discounted rates for the extended stay of study participants?

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                    • Jim.. wasn't the 90 required 90 days reply from the FDA regarding the approval or disapproval for the trial already came and went?

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                      • Originally posted by Barrington314mx View Post
                        Hey Jim, could there be some kind of partnership with local lodging for some discounted rates for the extended stay of study participants?
                        Def something we can look into and try to make some deals.

                        Originally posted by okwjoe View Post
                        Jim.. wasn't the 90 required 90 days reply from the FDA regarding the approval or disapproval for the trial already came and went?
                        The FDA insisted that one facility process all the cells, rather than each hospital. Once we find a place and the FDA approves them, we will go forward.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Barrington314mx View Post
                          Hey Jim, could there be some kind of partnership with local lodging for some discounted rates for the extended stay of study participants?
                          The trial I'm in covers the hotel and travel cost. The hotel gives them a discount for study participants. I have them use my hilton honors account so I rack up points and get free stays other places.
                          c6 inc since 2-19-11
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                          • Originally posted by Jim View Post
                            Def something we can look into and try to make some deals.



                            The FDA insisted that one facility process all the cells, rather than each hospital. Once we find a place and the FDA approves them, we will go forward.
                            That would be prudent.. uniform processing of cells

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Wills77 View Post
                              The trial I'm in covers the hotel and travel cost. The hotel gives them a discount for study participants. I have them use my hilton honors account so I rack up points and get free stays other places.
                              Its really good they are doing this.

                              It has been raised as a big problem with getting people on trials that local ethics committees are blocking this.
                              In addition lots of funding organisations won't allow their funds to be used for this purpose. I won't name the names I know about, but its another massive problem with getting progress to our cause
                              Last edited by niallel; 08-01-2018, 05:44 AM.

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                              • @Jim, do you have any idea about how long it's going to take to get a new facility to process the cells
                                "That's not smog! It's SMUG!! " - randy marsh, southpark

                                "what???? , you don't 'all' wear a poop sac?.... DAMNIT BONNIE, YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THE POOP SAC!!!! "


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