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high level scientific meeting on movement recovery

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Schmeky
    I have a question; what about all those that have participated in activity based recovery, conducted treadmill supported ambulation therapy, exercised regularly, and got nothing?
    I think he's referring to incompletes but is also suggesting that even if an effective regenerative treatment is found for chronic SCI, there won't be much recovery unless it's followed by aggressive, activity based rehab.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Wise Young
      I am sorry for being cryptic but I meant it in the cryptic sense. There are now many studies that suggest that people with so-called "incomplete" spinal cord injury recover walking if they engage in locomotor training activities. There is now widespread acceptance of the concept that animals with transected spinal cords can be trained to step (even though it is not controlled by the brain).

      Thus, the fact that recovery can occur in many people without biological therapies being applied suggests that applied repair, regeneration, and remyelination (it may occur spontaneously) is not necessary for recovery. The more interesting recognition that is beginning to occur at this meeting is that repair, regeneratin, and remyelination alone may not be sufficient for recovery. If one does not have rehabilitation after these therapies, there will be no recovery. Again, the evidence is clear. If patients are told to sit in a chair and do nothing, that is essentially what will happen: nothing.

      So, that is the basis of my statement that the three R's are not necessary nor sufficient for recovery.

      Wise.

      Dr. young what are BMCA and the T11 transcutaneous stimulation ? I know you're busy so website will do.
      Mike P.

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      • #33
        Proneuron results

        Hello Wise-
        Thank you for your updates and, well...just for being YOU!
        I am interested to know what Dr. Lammertze (sp?) had to say about what was learned from the ProNeuron trials. Is there anywhere I can get an overview of his talk?
        Thanx,
        Mimi

        Comment


        • #34
          Is a transected sci the same as complete? If so are you saying complete injury's will not have a chance for recovery?
          Say what you mean and mean what you say because those who mind dont matter and those who matter dont mind.

          My Myspace


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          • #35
            "So, you're saying there's a chance?"

            f
            ight

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mike Pell
              Dr. young what are BMCA and the T11 transcutaneous stimulation ? I know you're busy so website will do.
              BMCA stands for Brain Motor Control Assessment. This is a system where up to 32 channels of muscle activity is measured by electromyography while the subject does a standardized set of activities that will illustrate brain motor control of the body. It is a thorough and comprehensive assessment of motor control in people with spinal cord injury.

              The T11 transcutaneous stimulator is simply two patch electrodes that are placed on the skin around the T11 vertebral body. At certain stimulation levels, activates segmental reflexes for the legs by stimulating dorsal roots of the spinal cord at and around T10/T11 and T11/12 interfaces. It is also capable of stimulating the L2 central pattern generator.

              Wise.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by GoTWHeeLs
                Is a transected sci the same as complete? If so are you saying complete injury's will not have a chance for recovery?
                Please, for the umpteenth time, a "complete" spinal cord injury *does not* equal transected spinal cord. A transected spinal cord does imply a complete spinal cord injury but not vice versa. Many people with complete spinal cord injuries do recover function and some people recover substantial function including walking.

                Wise.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Schmeky
                  I have a question; what about all those that have participated in activity based recovery, conducted treadmill supported ambulation therapy, exercised regularly, and got nothing?
                  Activity-based training does not produce recovery in all people. While activity-based training is necessary, it is not sufficient for recovery. For these people, biologically based therapies are necessary.

                  Wise.

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                  • #39
                    Thank you for your response Dr. Young.

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                    • #40
                      Any knows who Foundation for Movement Recovery are?

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                      • #41
                        Leif,

                        http://www.freshnews.no/katalog/org/988395447.aspx
                        http://movement.fesworkshop.org/
                        http://www.chrispi.no/fmr/presentation.pdf


                        Wise.

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                        • #42
                          Easy there Wise, we're not all doctors and I had never heard the term transected. Thanks, for answering it for the umpteenth time.
                          Say what you mean and mean what you say because those who mind dont matter and those who matter dont mind.

                          My Myspace


                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by GoTWHeeLs View Post
                            Easy there Wise, we're not all doctors and I had never heard the term transected. Thanks, for answering it for the umpteenth time.
                            Transected means severed if i am not wrong?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by adi chicago View Post
                              Transected means severed if i am not wrong?
                              Adi, that is correct. Wise.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by GoTWHeeLs View Post
                                Easy there Wise, we're not all doctors and I had never heard the term transected. Thanks, for answering it for the umpteenth time.

                                Sorry... to tell you the truth, I don't like the word "complete" either. Usually, the adjective when applied to spinal cord injury means the absence of voluntary movement and conscious sensation below the injury site. In 1990, the American Spinal Injury Association (ASIA) introduced the classification system that defined ASIA A has a person who has a segmental level below which the person has no voluntary movement in key muscles and no conscious pinprick or touch sensation.

                                The problem is that not only people but doctors use these labels to take hope away from people and make prognostic judgments that are simply not supportable with data. Many people with "complete" spinal cord injuries do recover some function. A few recover substantial function. A person with so-called incomplete function with some motor function below the injury level is likely to recover substantial motor function including walking.

                                Wise.

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