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    Originally posted by redbandit

    I read TR's post and I don't understand your point, but let's try again.....
    TR said that Protestants not necessarily see themselves as Evangelicals, nor the opposite, thus why do they all have to have their own buildings and stuff? Because it is not the same. As for you’re link it refers to the history of evangelicals, not the Evangelical movement as such. Wiki describes what I think (says just closely associated with Protestants); http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicals

    Now, how about the evangelical bosses supporting hESCR? Not one?

    Comment


      Originally posted by Leif
      TR said that Protestants not necessarily see themselves as Evangelicals, nor the opposite, thus why do they all have to have their own buildings and stuff?
      She said the Protestants "she knows" don't consider themselves evangelicals. And the ones "she knows" not only don't consider themselves evangelicals, they don't consider themselves Protestants. This is self-contradictory and is hardly the norm for Protestants.

      As for you’re link it refers to the history of evangelicals, not the Evangelical movement as such.


      The link describes the current discussion among evangelicals about the use of the term evangelical today. You need to read the article more closely.

      Here's another link http://www.religioustolerance.org/evan_defn.htm

      This link has a number of sources that equate Evangelical with Protestant.
      Last edited by redbandit; 1 Aug 2008, 8:02 PM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by redbandit
        She said the Protestants "she knows" don't consider themselves evangelicals. And the ones "she knows" not only don't consider themselves evangelicals, they don't consider themselves Protestants. This is self-contradictory and is hardly the norm for Protestants.



        The link describes the current discussion among evangelicals about the use of the term evangelical today. You need to read the article more closely.

        Here's another link http://www.religioustolerance.org/evan_defn.htm

        This link has a number of sources that equate Evangelical with Protestant.
        Regardless of what TR said, I said they have different houses/churches and are not the same, get over it. I also guess you can’t show an Evangelical boss arguing for more hESC research. I leave this discussion until you can

        Comment


          Originally posted by Leif
          Regardless of what TR said, I said they have different houses/churches and are not the same, get over it.
          Arrrgh!!...

          Protestantism takes many forms called denominations(i.e. Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist and really too many to list here), hence the different houses/churches as you put it. These denominations are all included under the term evangelical. Did you look at the link I gave you? The United Methodist Church is listed as evangelical. In my previous post I showed you their website where they state that they support hESC research and public funding for research. So there you have it, evangelical bosses supporting hESC!!!

          Comment


            Here's one definition on that link (emphasis mine):

            Evangelical: "The conservative wing of Protestant Christianity comprising many denominations and other faith groups that tightly hold to historical Christian creeds, beliefs and practices."

            Comment


              Originally posted by redbandit
              She said the Protestants "she knows" don't consider themselves evangelicals. And the ones "she knows" not only don't consider themselves evangelicals, they don't consider themselves Protestants.
              Actually, what I said is that not all Protestants I know self-identify as evangelicals. Further, most Xians refer to their specific denomination, they don't use the general term "Protestant". There is a huge difference between Lutherans and, say, Southern Baptists. They may all worship a man they call Jesus, but they certainly do it in different ways.

              This is self-contradictory and is hardly the norm for Protestants.
              How is any of that "self-contradictory"? Do most of the Methodists that you know refer to themselves as Protestants? Technically speaking, of course they could, but do they?

              These denominations are all included under the term evangelical.
              All of them? All Protestant churches identify themselves as evangelical?

              C.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Tiger Racing
                Actually, what I said is that not all Protestants I know self-identify as evangelicals.
                You said most of the Protestants you know. Do they identify themselves as liberal, fundamental, or pentecostal then?

                Further, most Xians refer to their specific denomination, they don't use the general term "Protestant".
                True, but that doesn't change the fact that their denomination may be Protestant. Not all Christians understand the underpinings of their own religion.

                There is a huge difference between Lutherans and, say, Southern Baptists. They may all worship a man they call Jesus, but they certainly do it in different ways.
                True, but I wouldn't say a huge difference. Both are orthodox evangelical denominations that both arose as a result of the Reformation in the 16th century and were labeled by the Catholic church as "Protestant" because they were "protesting" against the church. Both denominations are in agreement that salvation is by faith alone through the substitutionary atonement of Christ, as well as the other core doctrines known as the "essentials". I think the Southern Baptists came from the Anabaptists who were the Radical Reformers but don't quote me on that.

                How is any of that "self-contradictory"? Do most of the Methodists that you know refer to themselves as Protestants? Technically speaking, of course they could, but do they?
                Sorry, I misread what you said, it's not self-contradictory. But it depends on how knowledgable a person is as to whether they refer to themselves as Protestant. Protestant is a broader term that is inclusive of many denominations,


                All of them? All Protestant churches identify themselves as evangelical?
                No, not all, but a significant majority would.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by redbandit
                  Do they identify themselves as liberal, fundamental, or pentecostal then?
                  Most of them don't use those terms to refer to themselves at all. When I talk to Xians and the subject of religion comes up, they usually identify themselves by the church they attend or were raised in. Concerning the people I am most likely to run into and to get into such a discussion with, I am more likely to label someone a Fundy than they are to declare themselves fundamentalists.

                  C.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Tiger Racing
                    When I talk to Xians and the subject of religion comes up, they usually identify themselves by the church they attend or were raised in.
                    You're right, most Christians will say, "I was raised Baptist" or "I go to the
                    First Presbyterian Church because I like the pastor" or something along those lines. More times than not they won't have a clear idea of the differences in the doctrines of different Protestant denominations.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by redbandit
                      It's an unproven therapy with no real published results, provides little if any recovery, and can cause neuropathic pain. Talk to adichicago on this site, he'll tell you about his experience with OEC's. Neuropathic pain is not an insignificant problem. It is the singular most significant detractor to my quality of life. A therapy that causes neuropathic pain in even one patient is unacceptable. Dr. Huang's procedure is a waste of money at the least, and at the worst a danger to your health and a potential exclusion from future legitimate trials.
                      “It's an unproven therapy with no real published results Here are 6 articles which were found on PubMed about Dr.Huang’s OECs published results.

                      1, Chin Med J (Engl). 2003 Oct;116(10):1488-91


                      Influence of patients' age on functional recovery after transplantation of olfactory ensheathing cells into injured spinal cord injury.


                      2, Zhongguo Xiu Fu Chong Jian Wai Ke Za Zhi. 2006 Apr;20(4):434-8
                      Influence factors for functional improvement after olfactory ensheathing cell transplantation for chronic spinal cord injury.
                      3, Zhongguo Xiu Fu Chong Jian Wai Ke Za Zhi. 2006 Apr;20(4):439-43
                      Safety of fetal olfactory ensheathing cell transplantation in patients with chronic spinal cord injury. A 38-month follow-up with MRI.
                      4, Zhongguo Xiu Fu Chong Jian Wai Ke Za Zhi. 2007 Jan;21(1):52-7
                      MR spectroscopy evaluation and short-term outcome of olfactory ensheathing cells transplantation in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis patients.
                      5, Zhongguo Xiu Fu Chong Jian Wai Ke Za Zhi. 2007 Sep;21(9):961-6.
                      Short-term outcome of olfactory ensheathing cells transplantation for treatment of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.
                      6, Clin Transplant. 2008 Jul 31. [Epub ahead of print]
                      Fetal olfactory ensheathing cells transplantation in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis patients: a controlled pilot study.

                      “Talk to adichicago on this site, he'll tell you about his experience with OEC's. Neuropathic pain is not an insignificant problem. It is the singular most significant detractor to my quality of life. A therapy that causes neuropathic pain in even one patient is unacceptable.” Please go to ask Adi Chicago whether his neuropathic pain was caused by the OECs. He had this serious pain already before he came to take OECs treatment.In the reports, OECs could relieve this kind of pain on some patients. Even if it did not helped Adi, he still can NOT say his pain was a result of OECs.

                      “…and at the worst a danger to your health” What kind of dangers did OECs caused? Who and how can prove this statement? Many polls and researched have been done on this treatment, although the effect of OECs was not a cure but it indeed helped patients at a certain degree.












                      Comment


                        Is it really worth going through OEC for the small if detectable at all gains people are getting?
                        "Life is about how you
                        respond to not only the
                        challenges you're dealt but
                        the challenges you seek...If
                        you have no goals, no
                        mountains to climb, your
                        soul dies".~Liz Fordred

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Curt Leatherbee
                          Is it really worth going through OEC for the small if detectable at all gains people are getting?
                          Curt,
                          That depends on the individual and their level of desperation. We have seen a number of people report on this site about the treatment. I personally haven't seen evidence to justify the procedure. But I'll bet you ask someone less then 5 years post injury you will get a different opinion.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by ChipD
                            Curt,
                            That depends on the individual and their level of desperation. We have seen a number of people report on this site about the treatment. I personally haven't seen evidence to justify the procedure. But I'll bet you ask someone less then 5 years post injury you will get a different opinion.
                            I wouldnt think of having this done, I can think of better ways to use 20 or 30 grand and I have no great desire to go to China either. Thats one reason I decieded not to even go for the Paralympics as I dont want to go to China.
                            "Life is about how you
                            respond to not only the
                            challenges you're dealt but
                            the challenges you seek...If
                            you have no goals, no
                            mountains to climb, your
                            soul dies".~Liz Fordred

                            Comment


                              [QUOTE=Curt Leatherbee]I wouldnt think of having this done, I can think of better ways to use 20 or 30 grand and I have no great desire to go to China either. Thats one reason I decieded not to even go for the Paralympics as I dont want to go to China, now if it had been in UK or Australia or someplace like that I would have been game, the Paralympics, not the procedure, lol.
                              "Life is about how you
                              respond to not only the
                              challenges you're dealt but
                              the challenges you seek...If
                              you have no goals, no
                              mountains to climb, your
                              soul dies".~Liz Fordred

                              Comment

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