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    Virtual memory?

    Can anyone explain what virtual memory is, and how to get more of it?

    My computer is going slow, and has ground to a halt a couple of times recently. Both times, a message came up saying the virtual memory was low, but there were no directions about what, if anything, to do about it.

    #2
    Originally posted by keps
    Can anyone explain what virtual memory is, and how to get more of it?

    My computer is going slow, and has ground to a halt a couple of times recently. Both times, a message came up saying the virtual memory was low, but there were no directions about what, if anything, to do about it.
    Virtual Memory or your "Paging File" are the same thing. It's just an amount of space on your hard drive that your computer uses when it runs out of "real memory"... aka "system memory". Some computers are sold with a very little amount of system memory in them to save on cost. If you're running XP you should have at least 512MBs of system memory. I bought my gaming computer with 1GB but added another 1GB for a total of 2GBs. Many of the newer games and sims need lots of system memory so they don't have to use virtual memory (on the hard drive) which slows game play down considerably.

    Most computers come from the factory allowing the Operating System (I assume you have XP that now calls it the "Paging File" and I think it's unlimited) to control your virtual memory or paging file. To check, go to the Control Panel/System/Advanced Tab/Performance/Setting Button/Advanced Tab again and you'll see 3 items listed there. "Processor scheduling" (should be ticked to "Programs"), Memory usage" (should be ticked to "Programs") and finally your "Virtual memory". Click on the "Change" button and look to see how it's set. For normal usage it should be set to "System managed size".

    I have my virtual memory set to "Custom size"... and it's set to run on another hard drive. It works faster this way because it uses a different "channel" but since I have so much real memory or RAM it probably never gets used anyway. If you ever choose to use the "Custom size" option the rule of thumb is to set the amount to 1 and 1/2 times the amount of "real" system memory that you have installed. And always set the "Initial size" and "Maximum size" to the same number so it runs static and not dynamic.

    But if you want to speed up your computer the best and cheapest thing is to clean it (your hard drive) up. Use your "System Tools" (Start/All Programs/Accessories/System Tools/Disk Cleanup and then Disk Defragmenter) to "Cleanup" your hard drive" and then "Defragment" it. Compressing your old files may take quite a long time... that's one option in "Disk Cleanup". If you're running low on system memory (getting a warning) then you're having a system memory AND hard drive problem. Is it getting full with a lot of programs and stuff installed on it? Go to "Start" then "My Computer" and right click on the C: icon and then left click on "Properties". That will show you how much hard drive space you have available. If it's getting close to 80% full it's time for a good cleaning or a larger hard drive. Or install another one and have two of them. I have two hard drives in my computer to help keep things organized and running fast. My house and life are a mess but my computer is lean, clean and mean!

    But the best way is after you've done these two simple procedures (Disk Cleanup and Disk Defragmenter) is to add some more "System RAM" or "Memory Modules". System RAM is pretty cheap nowadays. You can go to Crucial and use their "Crucial Memory Advisor™ Tool" but probably use their "Crucial System Scanner" first and it will tell you what you already have installed and give you a recommendation as to what you may want to upgrade to. It's easy to install memory.... you just need to know if you have a free slot or two for it. The "Crucial System Scanner" will probably tell you this.

    Or you can download and run a free program called "The Belarc Advisor" that will show you how many memory modules you have installed and how many empty slots you have available, if any.

    Windows XP uses around 150MBs just to run its fat self. And if you have a bunch of stuff running in the background or worms, trojans and/or viruses in your Operating System that will slow you down too.

    Have you run an up-to-date, anti-virus and anti-malware program lately? If you have a fast connection try using Trend Micro's online scanner called "Housecall". That might pick up some things your current anti-virus scanning program isn't. And always run an updated Ad-Aware SE Personal Edition 1.06 once a week and delete all the cookies and malware and even delete some bad registry entries that build up in your computer. You may need to sign into CareCure manually after you do this if you delete their cookie but if you know your username and password, no problem. Or just tell them that you "Lost your Password" and they'll send you it again or another one in a few minutes via email. Also clean up your system's registry with one of the many free registry cleaner programs available. These can screw you up a little bit if you're not careful but most are very safe to run. I use RegCleaner and haven't had any problems. Well, one a few years back.... the MS Speech Engine program was losing its registry entries so I needed to add it to the program's "Ignore" list.

    Good luck Keps.

    Bob.
    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

    Comment


      #3
      To change the size of the virtual memory paging file

      You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the Administrators group in order to complete this procedure. If your computer is connected to a network, network policy settings might also prevent you from completing this procedure.

      Open System in Control Panel.
      On the Advanced tab, under Performance, click Settings.
      On the Advanced tab, under Virtual memory, click Change.
      Under Drive [Volume Label], click the drive that contains the paging file you want to change.
      Under Paging file size for selected drive, click Custom size, and type a new paging file size in megabytes in the Initial size (MB) or Maximum size (MB) box, and then click Set.
      If you decrease the size of either the initial or maximum page file settings, you must restart your computer to see the effects of those changes. Increases typically do not require a restart.

      Comment


        #4
        I seem to remember something about virtual memory messages being some crud running in the background jamming up the works, but it was so long ago I forgot what it was...big help, eh? . But right now is quite the ideal time to fix that as memory pricing is currently falling through the floor. To start, how much memory do you have in your computer? If it is less than 512MB on an XP machine, you will run into performance issues with page file usage. Much more noticable at the 256MB and below levels, as your hard drive becomes your memory...and that runs a lot slower. In general at least 512MB of physical memory is preferred.

        Check the Crucial advisor Bob linked, find out what you need...but dont buy from there. Next check the cheapest internet computer parts source for your country, I'm not sure what that is in the UK, but a good start in the US is newegg.com. Memory prices are almost 1/2 of what they were some 3 months ago, with no signs of slowing down apparent...fancy chart

        Comment


          #5
          Right click on my computer, go to properties. Then Click on Advanced -> Performance -> Settings -> Advanced. Find the Virtual Memory



          Now Click on change.



          Now select the partition where your windows is not installed. Commonly its installed in C:, so choose any other partition and select Custom. Now in Intital size allocate min. amount which is atleast twice of your physical memory or RAM, i.e if you are useing 256 MB of RAM then allocate 512. And in the max. size allocate 1024.

          Click on OK. Then Apply. OK. Again Apply Ok. Restart your Machine.

          Comment


            #6
            Thank you everyone for your help. Thanks to you lot, the problem is now fixed!

            I got my bf to read your replies (as most of the tech-speak went over my head ), and he understood what you all meant.

            So, he did a defragmentation (cheers Bob), and a hard drive disc clean-up.
            Did the defragmentation overnight, as it took so long.

            The virtual memory now appears to be perfect, and the computer is now back running at high speed.
            The bf is going to be removing stuff as well and putting stuff on disc to get rid of more stuff on the machine.

            Andy - I do have an XP machine. We now have 42GB of the original 160GB. Of course, before defrag we had a lot less than 42, which was the problem.

            Thank you again to everyone who replied, because it was all useful stuff.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by keps
              Thank you everyone for your help. Thanks to you lot, the problem is now fixed!

              I got my bf to read your replies (as most of the tech-speak went over my head ), and he understood what you all meant.

              So, he did a defragmentation (cheers Bob), and a hard drive disc clean-up.
              Did the defragmentation overnight, as it took so long.

              The virtual memory now appears to be perfect, and the computer is now back running at high speed.
              The bf is going to be removing stuff as well and putting stuff on disc to get rid of more stuff on the machine.

              Andy - I do have an XP machine. We now have 42GB of the original 160GB. Of course, before defrag we had a lot less than 42, which was the problem.

              Thank you again to everyone who replied, because it was all useful stuff.
              Hi Karen,

              Good to hear that you and your boyfriend got things running better. Defragmenting doesn't add any space to your hard drive, it just rearranges things to where they should be so they can be accessed faster. Kinda like a librarian putting the books back into their proper location after a bunch of unruly 3rd graders do their thing in the library! Well maybe it clears up some extra space by reorganizing things... I'll have to check the next time I defrag.

              I'm not surprised it took so long to defrag since it appears as though it's never been done before on your machine. And "Compressing Old Files" can really take a long time too if that gets neglected. I Disk Cleanup and remove any programs or games I don't think I'll ever use again and then Defrag. I do it about once a week and it only takes a few minutes. Always Disk Cleanup first, then Defrag. It's just regular computer housekeeping.

              I have my computer set up so it doesn't get very fragmented by "partitioning" my hard drive. My primary or master hard drive has 3 partitions on it. It's only 74GBs since it runs faster than most (10,000RPMs) hard drives but I have 30GBs allocated for my C: partition where the Operating System is installed, 5GBs allocated for the D: partition which I have only for my "Virtual Memory/Paging File" and 35GBs allocated for my E: partition where I load all my games and simulators. Then on my second hard drive, that I can remove and replace back into my backup computer with its own copy of XP already in place, it has 4 partitions on it. It used to have 6 until I screwed up trying to get my sister's computer running by using it. Her computer recognized my C: partition as a single drive and I lost everything when it formatted the whole hard drive. Duh. I use that (excluding the C: partition where my Alienware XP Operating System is located) for storing "static" stuff like pictures, videos, music, downloaded exes etc. And now for my Virtual Memory/Paging File.

              In this way all those static files that are stored on my other hard drive can be used in both computers and don't get intermingled with my programs on either of the C: partitions, slowing them down by getting fragmented. And with my games and simulators on another partition E: on my primary hard drive, they don't get intermingled with the C: programs and files either.

              And since my C: partition (aka drive) is smaller it can now be cleaned up and defragmented in just a couple/few minutes. My gaming/simulator partition hardly ever gets very fragmented so only takes a minute or so to cleanup and defragment.

              It's no surprise that your quite full 160GB hard drive must have seemed like it was taking forever to cleanup and defrag! And you only have 42GBs of free space left on it? It's getting quite full, what the hell do you have on it!!?? Never mind! I probably have more than 3/4s of free space on all my partitions.... except my J: partition where I store most of my static files. But that stuff just lays there doing nothing until I need it and is outta the way and doesn't have an effect on my computer's speed so can be filled up almost to the max. You need a certain amount of "wiggle room" on a hard drive for XP to run properly. You'll never get XP to run correctly if you ever fill your 160GB hard disk drive to its maximum.

              You're getting close to the 80% mark on your hard drive so try not to keep adding stuff that's unnecessary... without perhaps removing one-for-one some other stuff. It's amazing what we can learn to live without if we have a hard drive failure or need to do a format and clean install of the Operating System. That's another reason to have multiple partitions. You can backup all your "can't live without" stuff on the other partitions and format and clean install XP on C: without blinking an eye should it get corrupted. All your pictures, videos, music and downloaded exes etc are still on your hard drive, tucked away safely on the other partition(s) but are just as easy to access as if they were on a single C: drive. I think large hard drives should come with at least a 20% storage partition D: on them by default and if you want to, you can format it into a single drive when you install the OS. Most people don't know about creating partitions and they are so useful.

              Anything REALLY important should be backed up onto CD-Rs or DVDs and kept separate from your computer, at another location or even in a safety deposit box.

              If you ever need to format and clean install XP consider creating at least one other partition for storage purposes. In this way you won't have to concern yourself with backing up onto CD-Rs or DVDs anything the next time you format and clean install the OS, should you need to. It only takes about 10 seconds to create one and it can be formatted from within XP. But you can only do this during the format/clean install procedure of your hard drive. Well there's an $80 (???) program called "Partition Magic" that can partition a hard drive without formatting it but I'd never use it. And with a hard drive that's already kinda full like yours it would make it difficult with the Partition Magic program. And probably take hours and hours to complete.

              Don't forget to download Ad-Aware SE Personal Edition 1.06 that I linked to. Everyone should run this or similar program once a week (update it regularly). And the RegCleaner program too. It's safe to run it because even if it does remove (which it shouldn't) some registry entries it automatically saves a backup copy of your registry that you can revert back to. I bet Ad-Aware will find hundreds of old cookies and malware files the first time you run it. And RegClean, maybe as many old useless registry entries as well.

              You probably only have one large C: drive or partition in your "My Computer: Hard Disk Drives". Here's how mine is set up:



              Bob.
              "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

              Comment


                #8
                Raptors, eh? . Check out that new 1T Hitachi, it is getting up there in speed close to the Raptors due to density. The price tag might be high, at least compared to the usual $100 drive. And spending that much $$ you almost want to RAID for the OMG factor, and you better have a ton of porn to store too! Unless you are doing something legit like pissing off the RIAA with music and movies. I'd almost just get 3 more drives same as what I have now and do a RAID 10 array, that might be cool and put one of those two RAID controllers my MB has to work. At $85 a crack I almost might to load up that machine with more crap. Think I need a hobby or something?

                Ok, back on topic after that bit of bored rambling...after loading some application it is good to defrag also, keeps the 'data here' picture looking nice and pretty...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Karen, glad to read that your computer woes are no more.

                  If I recall correctly Windows 98 and Millennium Edition had problems managing virtual memory.

                  In some cases you can speed up Windows by almost 20% by removing unnecessary start-up tasks. To see what programs are running you will want to go to "Start," "Run," type "msconfig," and click the startup tab. I would recommend going to System Info to find out what each program is in your startup menu.

                  How-to speed up Windows XP

                  1. Open the Windows Control Panel
                  2. Double-click on System
                  3. Click on the Advanced Tab
                  4. Click on the Settings button in the Performance section
                  5. Place a check mark in the "Adjust for Best Performance" and click "Okay"

                  Windows will lose some of its eye-catching appeal but the bump in performance is noticeable
                  The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom
                  --General George Patton

                  Complex problems need to be solved collectively.
                  ––Paul Nussbaum
                  usc87.blogspot.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Many people have given great advice, so the only thing I can add is that you need to ensure that your pagefile is on the fastest drive in your system. You could always plug a 4 gig USB drive into your system and use it for the page file, but you're still better off adding memory. I run all 15k SCSI drives and they handle multi-tasking far better than IDE/SATA, but very few people are as geeky
                    http://www.dnconsultants.com/content/blogsection/0/9/

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Andy
                      Raptors, eh? . Check out that new 1T Hitachi, it is getting up there in speed close to the Raptors due to density. The price tag might be high, at least compared to the usual $100 drive. And spending that much $$ you almost want to RAID for the OMG factor, and you better have a ton of porn to store too! Unless you are doing something legit like pissing off the RIAA with music and movies. I'd almost just get 3 more drives same as what I have now and do a RAID 10 array, that might be cool and put one of those two RAID controllers my MB has to work. At $85 a crack I almost might to load up that machine with more crap. Think I need a hobby or something?

                      Ok, back on topic after that bit of bored rambling...after loading some application it is good to defrag also, keeps the 'data here' picture looking nice and pretty...
                      Hi Andy,

                      Actually I only have one Raptor installed. My other HD is a 2 year old 7200RPM IDE 120GB Seagate Barracuda that I really like. It's so quiet. But going with or without RAID 0 was the toughest decision that I had to make when I ordered this computer. After much research I decided against it. Hard drives are finicky enough without trying to have two of them run in perfect tandem. For the combat flight simulator that is my main interest (Lock On: Modern Air Combat/Flaming Cliffs v 1.12A) it would only save me a few seconds as the mission was loaded into memory. RAID 0 is kinda like SLI. In theory they should double your access time or double your graphics capabilities but of course they don't in real life. Maybe a 30% increase for most applications. In MS Flight Simulator 2004 SLI slows the simulator down! I had the Pro version but found it so boring I gave it to the cable guy. I like to blow things up not fly long boring 6 hour flights on auto-pilot LAX to Kennedy. Taking off and landing is the only fun part of flying... unless you run into some emergency like the vertical stabilizer and rudder falling off and having it end up in Jamaica Bay NYC.

                      If I were into editing large video files I might consider RAID 0 but I need a few seconds to grab a beer or cup of coffee anyway so usually do this as the particular mission I'm fighting is loading into memory.

                      I notice on the spec sheet for the Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 that the Average Latency and Read Seek Times are less than twice that of the 150GB 10,000RPM Western Digital Raptor. And it's only warranteed for 3 years as opposed to the Raptor's 5 years. I'd have no idea what to do with a terrabyte of HD space.

                      It's funny, as soon as I got broadband I lost interest in porn. At 42kbps I had to wait 2 minutes or more just to download a single jpg... now I can download them so fast they go by like a lightning-speed slide show! I don't know, it's more of tease than anything else anymore just reminding me of what was or what I'd like things to be again. I only steal a few tracks or CDs once in awhile from the newsgroups. The RIAA be damned.... maybe if the artists would put more than one or two good tunes on a CD I'd buy more of them. A lot of the stuff that I download I already paid for once anyway when it was only on vinyl and/or cassette tape (I'm dating myself) or the CD was lost, stolen or scratched so my conscience is fairly clear.

                      Hey, my neighbor gave me the official version of "1 Night In Paris" (Hilton). The guy who taped it took advantage of a young, stupid 19 year old spoiled brat and is a real creep. His style of hatwear even bugs me! The DVD has the color footage as well as the fixed up green night-vision footage that is now in black and white. The best part of it are the 4 "Bonus/Boner Videos". They're pretty good XXX 15 minute or so long hardcore vids. If you want a copy PM me.

                      I was looking around at the GF 8800 GTXs to quad up my Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe. At $1,200 for a pair of 'em that's kinda high. And I just learned that the AMD FX-60 is Dual Core but is the same speed (2.6GHz) as my current FX-55. For my 939 PGA MB (damn, not an AM2) only the FX-57 is faster @ 2.8GHz. I can OC my FX-55 to 2.75GHz right now even with both my GF 6800 Ultras hooked up to the liquid cooling system. If I put the factory fans and heatsinks back on them I could probably eke out another 100MHz from the FX-55 and surpass the stock speed of the FX-57 that now goes for $800 if I wanted to put up with the noise of the fans. It probably has about zero overhead in it for OC'ing but I'll have to look around for some more details to be certain.

                      The simulator that I fight/fly doesn't take advantage of Dual Core technology so I'm kinda stuck in limbo upgrade-wise unless I change out the MB and make a big investment in a small upgrade, performance-wise. I will be upgrading my video cards if I find out that my processor isn't going to bottleneck me but probably not for another year.... maybe something new will hit the market making it worth my while or just wait until the 8800s come down in price when the next generation of nVidias come out.

                      Bob.
                      "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Whenever I get that urge to buy parts for the RAID idea, a few quick checks on benchmarks and real-world tests kind of gives me a reality check. Now if it was a simple as another 85 bucks and just do RAID 0, I do it, but I'm leery of doubleing the possibilty of trouble. So maybe mirror and stripe...that would be better...but then add 3 drives. Then the benefits for my usage come into play...maybe I'll stick with the good 'ol single drive. Or just get some 15K enterprise class SCSI drives...that will fix the need for speed, lol.

                        I'd be surprised if a single GTX wouldnt work great for you. I actually think a single GTX would stomp on your SLI setup in the benchmarks. No need to buy two of them at this point, or maybe even for some time unless some new mega game comes out. Bottleneck with your cpu...probably. I know my P4 massively bottlenecked my GTS, C2D fixed that. If I remember right around 3.2 or so Ghz no more gains were to be had on the graphics only benches in 3d06. Going up to 3.7 Ghz did no graphics score improvements, just cpu scores. Below the 3.2, it was slowing down the 8800. Just moving from 3.4 P4 to 2.4 C2D resulted in something like double 3d06 score, so it is the cpu technology involved as well, not just clock cycles. But hey, maybe just getting the GTX (or even a GTS) for your current system would be a nice improvement. Adapting it to your system would be pretty easy, I like this you can get either 1/2 or 3/8 barbs for it. Wanna see a little of how it goes together? Just a little upgrade might go a long way...

                        Oh yeah, virtual memory...that stuff is like...so virtual! Is that like 3D? (gotta stay on thread topic, lol)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi Andy,

                          Yes, we must stay on topic so I'll type the words "vitual memory". Okay, now that that's outta the way....

                          As I said before, I believe RAID 0 is just for certain applications like video editing large files or perhaps heavy duty Photo Shop work. Or maybe some heavy Excel spreadsheet work but that seems like a stretch. Maybe you know of a use for it and I don't mean the OMG factor! But gaming isn't one of them that makes it worth while especially if you have 2 or more GBs of fast memory. Perhaps some maps will load a bit faster... big deal. I wanted a new gaming computer for one reason and that was to run LOMAC/Flaming Cliffs v 1.12A at it's best/fastest. And since it can't take advantage of Dual Core or Dual Processors I'm like maxxed out with what I got.

                          You did a nice job of documenting and pictorially memorializing all the work you did on your Dell at Hard Forum. I'm registered at the Overclockers Forum and have rarely been to Hard Forum except when I needed to find an answer to a question not to be found at the OC forums.

                          I don't bother with mesh fan shields at all anymore. Since I smoke a lot and there's dog hair and God only know what else floating in the air in here they get clogged too easily. They restrict the airflow so much, off they come. I see that you've changed to a courser than usual mesh screen so that's cool. Hey, I have both side covers off my XFuel anyway so exhaust fans are of little use to me. I now have a fan hanging from a wire aimed at my memory modules and one (with rubber feet on it) setting between my SLI cards for added cooling of the memory chips. If I have an extra fan laying around I feel compelled to put it to use even if I have to put up with the extra noise. Anything is quieter that my old Alienware! And once the side covers are off I rarely put them back on so heat buildup really isn't a concern for me.

                          I needed to replace my original Thermaltake 680W PSU (Thermaltake upgraded me to a 700W Toughpower.... I think their 680W Purepowers were a bad design to begin with since they gave me no grief at all when RMAing it back) so the back side cover needed to come off to run the cables. My new computer looks like a Rube Goldberg design but I'm not trying to impress anyone. Functionality over aesthetics... in other words I'm too lazy to put them back on!

                          Looking at the EK-FC8800 GTS Waterblock in your pictures would make one think that the SLI tab connector is covered by it. But it's advertised as SLI compatible so I guess the connector will squeeze in there some how. I read that on one the latest versions of the SLI capable 8800GTXs they have two SLI tab connectors for some future, details yet to be released, capability. Supposedly a driver update will activate them and I imagine add some more speed or other features to the cards. But heat be damed, I can't get my 6800 Ultras to overclock much anyway (maybe 5%) and I don't come close to the default max temperature. How much OC'ing are you able to get outta your 8800? I think it's a voltage bottleneck not related to heat. Even when I run the auto-overclocker designed by nVidia for the video cards it'll artifact when I run 3DMark06. It barely OCs the cards at all anyway. And they never get hotter than 65*C or 70*C and the default core slowdown threshold is a whopping 135*C.



                          I just read at Legit Reviews using an AMD Athlon 64 4800+ processor that a pair of these expensive bad boys are bottlenecked.

                          Originally posted by Legit Reviews
                          As you can see in our testing the 8800 GTX SLI is bottlenecked by the CPU in nearly every test we ran. This is where the added cost that I mentioned in the beginning of the article comes in. Even running on an Intel Core 2 Duo is going to hold a pair of these cards back in most tests.
                          Originally posted by Andy
                          I actually think a single GTX would stomp on your SLI setup in the benchmarks. No need to buy two of them at this point,....
                          I agree.... I can't get close to your benchmarks results with my pair of 6800 Ultras. nVidia even has a program called "nTune" that supposed to optimize (OC) all the components and after running it for hours as it "tunes" everything or even by doing my own BIOS overclocking, I still come way short of your 3DMark06 numbers.

                          But since I have SLI I want to use it. It would look so bare in there with just a single card. Maybe I can get a pair of the less expensive 7900 series that would compliment and run my system at its fastest. A computer's components should be matched in speed because as we know the weakest (or slowest) link in the chain is the max that it'll run at anyway. I'll have to start looking at some 7900 or 7950 series cards and be content with that until I upgrade my MB.

                          So that's a money saver. I like to keep a computer and upgrade it for 3 years so I still have over a year to work/play on this one. It's funny when building and working on computers become more the impetus than gaming at high rezs and fast framerates. Shall I now use use the "N" word? Nitrogen.

                          Now get back to work washing and polishing your car as you make a run to the garage to get those Telco spreadsheets out of your trunk. Smoke and Coke break!

                          Bob.
                          "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The more I think about RAID the less I want it, like you said, not much gain for my uses.

                            Upgraded my Dell?!? That's a whole new machine, the Dell was just on the table in the background in those pics. It's in an Antec P180 case...was silver (a Best Buy $80 delivered sale special, smoking!), and thanks to Antec's excellent RMA policies...it is now a P180B (black panels and door). I just emailed Antec that I'm an idiot that broke every panel on my case and they cheerfully sent me the 2 panels and door in black free of charge. Gotta love them, great customer service, even if their customer might be a bit of a scammer. No harm, I'm sure the case costs them maybe $5 to build in China.

                            Wire mesh...yeah, that does block flow, but I'm kind of leery of the stuff inside getting all gunky, so maybe I'll live with it. As any air going into that case is through those screens hopefully it will stay new looking with no dust inside longer. Speaking of blocked flow, I'm kind of thinking of stuffing another single 120 radiator into the case right around the fan frame between the PS and hard drive cage. Reason being is that with the slow and quiet fan speeds I'm running, I kind of want to increase cooling capacity at that airflow level. Right now it is kind of borderline to what temps I like with the fans at 1000 rpm, and with another rad I can boost cooling and probably run the fans slower then as well. Probably another BIP for the new location, and maybe I'll put one of these in the current front location like this guy did. I was going to do this origionally, but no one had the PA160 in stock anywhere at the time so I went with BIP's. Gotta do some measuring tonight to see how cramming another radiator in would work. Yeah, I could get another case (Silverstone TJ07 1st choice, Lian Li V2100 2nd right now) which would have room for a triple rad and then some, but I dont want to start over, and if I can get close to the same cooling performance with my contraption, hey, that'll be good.

                            8800 overclock on mine is 648/900 (stock is advertised as 500/800 for the GTS, 575/900 for the GTX, GTS GPU is the same as GTX with some parts disabled, memory on GTS is supposedly lower grade than the GTX, still trying to find photos of GTX memory chips to verify this) . I use Rivatuner, so the next step up from 648 is something like 670 or so, which crashes 3d06. My memory can go to 1000, but ATI Tool finds errors after a while, so it sits at 900 error free. The 100 mhz for the memory is worth 200 in 3d06. I'm think I could really fine tune the speeds doing bios flashes instead of steppy Rivatuner, but too lazy to do that, driver level oc for me. I heard nTune didnt really work. I tried using that when I had the 8800 in the Dell, it kind of sat there for 20 minutes and didnt seem to do anything, so I deleted it. Not that hard doing things manually I think.

                            Originally posted by bob clark
                            It's funny when building and working on computers become more the impetus than gaming at high rezs and fast framerates.
                            I'm thinking the same thing, lots of fun just creating some fancy machine. Gaming is a bonus. Not ready for nitrogen yet (although 6GHz does sound cool ), but those phase change systems do sound rather interesting, lol.

                            Oh yeah, I think this machine has tons of virtual memory in it...not sure where it is located though
                            Last edited by Andy; 28 Mar 2007, 8:04 PM.

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                              #15
                              Hi Andy,

                              I think the virtual memory is hidden inside the PSU nowadays but don't quote me on that.

                              I don't understand why you and others want your liquid cooling radiator and pump inside your case when it can easily be placed outside and on top of the case. Heat rises! And the same with the PSU. My Koolance, which is now an older version only has 2 fans cooling the radiator, sets upon the outside top of the case and looks like part of the case. And blows the heat upward and away from the computer/components. The newer versions have 3 fans so can spin slower obtaining the same results as mine at slightly faster speeds (noise). It's a 10 speed. Plus they have the thermal sensor temperature readings and thermostat controls (manual or auto) at your fingertips that look cool with the blue LEDs, on the front of computer. One glance and you know the temperature of your processor. Push a small single button and find out the temps of your GPU(s). And another to change from auto to manual fan speeds. It's a no brainer to me.

                              The one thing I don't like about the Koolance system that I have is its inability to be calibrated to the motherboard sensors or temperatures. There's about a 10* C difference in readouts and I believe the motherboard readouts over the Koolance. So rule of thumb on my system, I add between 6*C and 10*C to the LED readouts depending upon the temperature. They should have a button or control of some type on the Koolance unit that would enable a person to sync up the two separate readings. And use the same sensors instead of separate sensors that are located in slighly different locations on the CPU (the reason for the different readouts) and GPU(s). I've had many email discussions with Koolance about this oversight and lack of synchronization and scalability. I haven't been in touch with them in over a year but I bet the newer models will incorporate this simple concept.

                              Here's the "Integrated" case that I have. It's not the best looking case in the world but I've seen computer cases made outta cardboard boxes! But you can buy external top mounting cooloing systems that will fit on practically any case you choose. I like the looks of those aluminum Lian Li cases.



                              You can see all of the Koolance Integrated cases HERE. Or just go to their website and see all their products though I imagine you've already been there.

                              I'd prefer the larger diameter tubing that you're using but I bought my computer from ThunderboxPC (now out of business!) so couldn't hand-pick every component. I was gonna build my last computer but chickened out at the last moment. I wouldn't have saved much if any money and if you take one look at my livingroom or garage, I'm kinda space-challenged when it comes to box storage. I have a box farm in the garage and a box garden in my livingroom. I need to do a little "house cleaning".

                              Plus I'm tool-challenged too. It shouldn't take many tools to build a computer but a Dremel tool would probably be a handy one to have lying around. And I don't have any workspace in here anyway. Just a dining room table that's full of old bills and papers etc. piled about a foot high. I'm too "intimate" with my USPS mail carrier, UPS and Fed-Ex people as it is. I buy just about everything online and just can't (obsessive-compulsive perhaps) throw a box away!

                              A good workbench would be a nice start too but now I'm starting to make excuses.

                              I considered an Asetek VapoChill LightSpeed [AC] but decided against it. At the time they were $1000 so I could just wait and buy the latest/fastest CPU for that price without all the hassles of vapor cooling. They have to "rev" up to temperature before you can turn your computer on so that takes a couple extra minutes to boot up, I'm sure they're kinda loud plus there are condensation concerns. And it only cools the processor, not the graphic card(s). I think that's changed now but you've got to really be into the OMG factor to put up with those hassles. It would be nice to have a cold beer setting in the computer case so I wouldn't have to wheel over to the refrigerator but I'll make the sacrifice and stick with plain old liquid cooling for now.

                              Sorry about my Dell reference snafu. I didn't mean to insult you!

                              Funny that Alienware allowed Dell to buy them out but as they say, it's all about the money. Pride be damned!

                              Gotta go, my "professional" shopper will be here soon. I'd prefer that he shop in the afternoon but since he works the nightshift as a CT scan tech (well in "nuclear medicine??) at one of the local hospitals I deferred to his time preference. If I want my measly SSDI check to get here every month I need as many happy workers as I can keep on the tax rolls. We need more production I say as I crack my virtual whip.

                              Bob.
                              "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

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