Rediscovered talking books

[Cris]

Listening to quality talking books from your home PC or how to load the android OS on your desktop.


Does anyone use talking books at the Library of Congress? Do not like their machines or listening to the books on a smart phone, want to play them on my computer and control them with my trackball.

To do this on my machine running Windows 7 with an android OS (https://www.bluestacks.com/download.html) giving me the ability to run any APK software on my home computer, including Bard (download from the NLS) talking books software.

Just sign up for talking books from the national Library service, sign up for Bard, load android OS onto your computer and then install the talking book APK. Then look up any book at the library you want to listen to, listening to "The Bourne Ascendancy" now. If you have any problems configuring it, let me know and will try and help.

https://www.loc.gov/nls/

National Library Service (NLS) is a free braille and talking book library service for people with temporary or permanent low vision, blindness, or a physical disability that prevents them from reading or holding the printed page. Through a national network of cooperating libraries, NLS circulates books and magazines in braille or audio formats, delivered by postage-free mail or instantly downloadable.

[xsfxsf]

This is definitely very different from talking books, and doesn't fit the needs of some people, but I thought I'd mention anyway, I've enjoyed the Kindle audible books sometimes. It's an audiobook that syncs to your Kindle. I listen on an iPad. Many books aren't available in this format at all, however. It would require more vision to use than a talking book however.

[funklab]

What’s the difference between a talking book and an audiobook?

[SCI-Nurse]

The Library of Congress National Library Service for the Blind and Physical Handicapped (ie, Talking Books) program has been around for a long time...before the internet they had books on vinyl records and then cassette tapes. It was started in 1931 for people with blindness, and expanded to other disabilities in 1961. Due to copyright issues, these are available only to qualified people with disabilities, initially the blind only, not to the general public. It includes books, newspapers, magazines, music scores, etc. in both audio and eBraille formats. It also includes their own playback device which is provided for free to users:

https://www.loc.gov/nls/about/overview/

Audiobooks are commercially produced, usually for sale or rent (not for free) although some public libraries provide them for free "rental" to their card owners. iTunes has a number of audiobooks. Some of the companies started out as books-on-tape (cassettes) years ago. Audible is probably the best known, which started as a on-line company and was bought out by Amazon several years ago.

I download Audible books to my MP3 player to listen to in the car (I don't have a smart phone). You can download to tablets, some e-readers, and of course to laptop or desktop computers as well.

(KLD)

[ChesBay]

Our local library has a good selection of audiobooks. I go to the library’s site on line and check them out there. One of the side effects of long term SCI which I attribute to arthritis and central nerve pain, I do miss “getting lost in a good book”. Sitting or lying in one place too long no longer makes this an enjoyable activity on a regular basis. Audiobooks fill a gap.

I usually listen on an iPad.

[automation]

What?s the difference between a talking book and an audiobook?

There are many different/incompatible mechanisms for presenting text in a non-print format.

An "audio book" is usually little more than a recording of someone (often the book's author!) reading the book to you.

A Digital Talking Book is a structured document that lets the "reader" peruse the volume as a sighted person would -- able to note the spelling of each word, chapter/section breaks, etc. A DTB can also include multimedia content (visual/audible) beyond the "text" accessible based on the capabilities of your particular "player".

Audiobooks, being just "audio recordings", can essentially be "copied" just by recording the audio. You could also record the audio from a DTB player -- but, you'd lose most of the added-value (document structure, multimedia capabilities) that the DTB format provides.

In the US, Copyright holders implicitly grant the NLS the ability to reproduce their copyrighted works for "impaired users". As this offers an avenue by which their rights can be subverted (e.g., pirated copies), the DTB provides an encryption mechanism by which legitimate users can be allowed access to the media while "counterfeit users" can be denied that access.

(Note that there was little demand for pirates to counterfeit braille volumes -- also produced by the NLS through a series of volunteer braille transcribers and other agencies under contract to the NLS! FWIW, the braille transcribing course was essentially free to any who wanted to enroll; but, a significant commitment is required -- braille is really hard to transcribe :< )

Before choosing a technology, you should carefully explore the range of offerings compatible with that technology. Pay particular attention to how current the offerings are (e.g., braille editions of new releases used to have considerable waiting lists as braille is hard to economically reproduce and distribute). For example, can you get a copy of today's issue of your hometown newspaper?

You might opt for picking a technology that fits the availability of the media you want to consume instead of the other way around!

(FWIW, the NLS's "devices" have always tended to be clumsy, regardless of technology!)

[automation]

Audiobooks fill a gap.

The advantage of audiobooks is that there is a larger market (sighted AND visually impaired consumers). So, more titles -- and more current titles -- tend to find their way into this medium. And, the media gets cheaper to reproduce.

The downside is that there are more consumers vying for these titles! Many (sighted) users will listen to an audiobook while driving to work, etc.

For physical media, any copy that is in use is unusable by another patron. One can understand that a library may want to limit the number of such copies that it has on hand due to budget constraints.

But, I am at a loss as to why electronic copies are similarly limited. I can understand that the author wants to be compensated based on how many copies are sold/purchased (and, ultimately, READ). So, why not have an infinite number of copies available and just pay the author/vendor based on "usage"/readership? Do you really care if 5 people each took one copy for two weeks over a span of 10 weeks -- vs. 5 people taking 5 copies over the span of TWO weeks? (or ten??)

<frown>

[mthomson]

I love audio books. I listen to a couple a week. I used to use Audible, but at $14.95 a book it was unaffordable. My local library has an app that allows me to download audio books directly to my phone or tablet. It had a decent supply. Then I discovered that I could buy a statewide access pass, which allows me to get a library card, and download titles, from any library in the state.

[Cris]

But, I am at a loss as to why electronic copies are similarly limited. I can understand that the author wants to be compensated based on how many copies are sold/purchased (and, ultimately, READ). So, why not have an infinite number of copies available and just pay the author/vendor based on "usage"/readership? Do you really care if 5 people each took one copy for two weeks over a span of 10 weeks -- vs. 5 people taking 5 copies over the span of TWO weeks? (or ten??)

<frown>

Are you referring to the Library of Congress talking books or corporations like Amazon's audible.com audiobooks?

Reread the thread and cannot tell what you're referring to can you give me an example of how this happened from where because I do not understand who is limiting how many books are available or for what duration.

Have some ideas but need some facts to see if there applicable.

[automation]

Are you referring to the Library of Congress talking books or corporations like Amazon's audible.com audiobooks?

Reread the thread and cannot tell what you're referring to can you give me an example of how this happened from where because I do not understand who is limiting how many books are available or for what duration.

Have some ideas but need some facts to see if there applicable.

The NLS is an entirely separate beast -- intended for low/no vision readers (clients) -- and special players/readers as the content of a DTB is encrypted. Braille and eBraille (for refre$hable braille di$play$) are similarly intended for that audience.

In addition to print, that leaves "audiobooks" (cassettes, CDs, "audio downloads") and eBooks (in several different -- incompatible -- formats). Note that an audiobook is strictly an audio modality -- doesn't work if you're deaf! OTOH, eBooks (and DTBs) can be used by sighted, blind, or deaf clients -- bigger "market"!

You need a copy of a physical audio book (CD or cassette) for each person who intends to read it, concurrently -- just like any other physical medium (e.g., a real book!).

That same restriction need not apply to electronic formats -- audio downloads, eBooks, DTBs, etc. You can (theoretically) issue as many copies as you want as they're just "bits" on the user's storage medium. But, policy (licensing terms?) causes local lenders (public library) to treat them as if they were physical entities. So, if they've only got 1 copy of a particular title IN ELECTRONIC FORMAT, you have to wait for the current borrower to be done with it before the next borrower can access it.

As more people get interested in these electronic editions, there is more demand for them. This demand could be met instantly -- just by issuing N copies simultaneously and sending payment (license fees) to the publisher for each checkout.

While I enjoy using my Nooks, I usually borrow hard-copy editions of anything I want from the library -- because they are more readily available than the eBook editions. (see attached pic)

[A previous borrower of a print book will often return it before the end of the borrowing period. OTOH, it appears that eBooks just "self destruct" after the borrowing period is over so patrons have no incentive to return them (early) -- they "return themselves" -- though only after the ENTIRE borrowing period is over! So, the waiting period is longer.]

[Cris]

Did you forget about people with disabilities who may not be able to read a book as well as you can?


You also missed other critical elements in your post, some audio media are produced by legislation by the Congress of the United States, and there are other organizations that produce for listenable books to create a profit.newspaper they use different copyright licenses and legislation determine the types of media copyright control, etc. that can be given away for free.

The congregational legislative books are free from the author i.e. they have donated their rights to the public others charge them money for different versions if they're not blind and disabled.

A little specific information, go a lot longer than pasting excess information, you put everything into one basket and did not delineate one from another and who they belong to.

So again, give me a specific organization as requested in the original post. "

Are you referring to the Library of Congress talking books or corporations like Amazon's audible.com audiobooks?

Reread the thread and cannot tell what you're referring to. Can you give me an setting goals assisted example of how this happened from where because I do not understand who is limiting how many books are available or for what duration.

If you want to read the story behind the NLS here is the link https://www.loc.gov/nls/about/organi...history/#three it also mentions they supplied materials for physical disabilities as well as those blind.

[automation]

Did you forget about people with disabilities who may not be able to read a book as well as you can?

For your information, I've spent YEARS working with people who "can't read a book as well as [I] can". (Can you transcribe braille?)

If you reread the entire THREAD (to place my comments in context), you'll see that I was explaining the pros and cons of various types of alternative book formats -- and their consequences in different populations. For example, the General (sighted) public has very little impact on the demand for the limited number of braille editions of any particular title, offered.

OTOH, the General Public is a large competitor for "talking books" (in various forms) because they can consume them while not NEEDING them -- they can read the book in a more conventional way.

You also missed other critical elements in your post, some audio media are produced by legislation by the Congress of the United States, and there are other organizations that produce for listenable books to create a profit.newspaper they use different copyright licenses and legislation determine the types of media copyright control, etc. that can be given away for free.

I'm not trying to be an exhaustive reference for alternative publication methods. Rather, illustrating the differences between the different technologies and the markets they were intended to address (and are ACTUALLY addressing). Did you miss this query:

What?s the difference between a talking book and an audiobook?

So again, give me a specific organization as requested in the original post. "

Try any library that deals with "electronic media". I gave you a screen shot of a random title I picked from my local library -- to illustrate how the electronic versions of the title are restricted to a single "copy" of each -- despite the fact that you could create a limitless number of copies for no additional cost.

Here's a page out of the Chicago Public Library's catalog:
https://chipublib.bibliocommons.com/...126_joy_enough

The fact that an "artificial" (in the sense that there are no physical/mechanical reasons for it as there would be on a physical object) limit is placed on a resource means access to it will be limited. The fact that there is increased demand for these (among "non-disabled") consumers gives you the worst of both worlds: more demand for fewer resources.

You want the opposite to be true: less demand for more resources -- if you are a consumer of that resource!

Alternatively, you want to increase demand for a resource if that will also increase the availability of that resource. This is especially true of resources that are expensive or expensive to produce. eBooks and downloadable audio do the former -- and have the POTENTIAL to do the latter... except that lending policies seem to be hindering that.

If you want to BUY something, then this doesn't affect you in the least, right? Heck, you can hire someone to transcribe today's local, SMALL-TOWN newspaper before its published -- if you've got enough money! E.g., Stevie Wonder was decades ahead of his "similarly disabled" contemporaries because of deeper pockets!

https://www.kurzweiledu.com/about-ku...to-speech.html

[automation]

Here's (attached) another example to illustrate what I'm saying. Not that the content is available in three different types of media:

• downloadable audiobook
• large print book
• ebook

There are NO COPIES available for either of the electronic formats -- but exactly one available for the print edition.

Furthermore, there are limits on the number of copies of each of the media types -- 15 copies of the audio download, 1 copy of the print book and 64 copies of the ebook. This has result in WAITING LISTS for each of the two electronic media formats -- 62 waiting for the audio download and 119 waiting for the ebook.

These "available copies" are only constrained by licensing issues, not "shelf space" (they don't take up any physical space). If the licensing terms had been redefined away from the legacy notion of "number of REAL books on a shelf" to "number of READS", then the library could satisfy those waiting lists immediately ("distribute" more electronic copies, each of which will self destruct when the loan period expires). The author would be compensated based on how many patrons "consumed" his work instead of how many copies sat on the "virtual shelf" (will some of those folks get tired of waiting and opt NOT to read the title?)

So, electronic media has increased demand for the product (notice no one is waiting for the print copy!) but has (artificially) limited supply at the same time!

[Imagine everyone decides they want to drive around in a wheelchair. There'd be more ramps in public (and private) spaces, more accommodation for chairs in restaurants, homes, businesses, more repair shops, etc. But, imagine if the supply of those chairs didn't experience a corresponding increase! Suddenly, you're competing for something you NEED with folks who are willing to pay for them just out of DESIRE.]







https://chipublib.bibliocommons.com/..._we_were_yours

[Cris]

The point of the topic was remembering the enjoyment of reading a good book and we got into a squabble.

Was unable to utilize or enjoy the National Library for the blind and disabled back in the 80s. A subscription to audible.com was a catalyst to revisit the institution and read the same books for free

Congratulations and many thanks from many people for transcribing books to braille. It is extremely difficult and many people are needed to continue the process.

My apologies, you didn't need to go on a cut & paste rampage. Clear and concise concepts transmitted with minimal verbiage as possible is ideal.

[automation]

The point of the topic was remembering the enjoyment of reading a good book and we got into a squabble.

Was unable to utilize or enjoy the National Library for the blind and disabled back in the 80s. A subscription to audible.com was a catalyst to revisit the institution and read the same books for free

I design products for folks with disabilities. If you target the design to the disability, you end up with all the pricing and support problems of "specialty products" with low quantities and disproportionately high "support costs". (which is why a powerchair costs as much as a car -- despite being a considerably simpler device!)

If, instead, you develop with an attitude to including (and targeting!) non-disabled users, then you let THEM "finance" the development/sales/support instead of putting it all on the back of a smaller population with typically costlier needs.

But, that assumes you can then supply devices in the larger quantities that will be required (so you don't grow the market bigger than the supply). That's the intended lesson of my "electronic media" example.