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What size cath is normal?

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  • What size cath is normal?

    Mike has been slacking on the caths and I know it is all trial and error, but.... How many cc's should a "normal" cath be. He cathed this morning at 9am, 3 pm, and just now. The latter was a biggee (600cc's) but he had a gatorade.

  • #2
    When I was in rehab, they didn't like a cath over 500cc's, and said that 150 was small. Eventually, if not already, he will be getting a warning sign to cath. To me volume doesn't really matter so long as it's not too concintrated or cloudy. Just try to make sure he caths when he gets his warning because holding it isn't that healthy and there's a chance of voiding.
    ~Ashley~

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    • #3
      Thanks for the quick reply. Can you tell me, what are the warning signs?
      BTW he did void a little last weekend when he was busy and didn't cath.

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      • #4
        It's important that Mike cath about 5 times in 24 hours. It's also important that he keep himself well-hydrated. If he's well hydrated then his urinary tract works more efficiently. I find that when my husband Don does not drink enough that a UTI is just waiting to happen.
        I agree with Pash... anything over 500cc's is not good ... if Don's bladder gets too full then he just leaks... but with a T6 injury, Mike runs the possible risk of having AD if he gets too full. The risk of AD is not as high as it would be with a higher injury but he still runs the risk.

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        • #5
          Thanks again. He is sort of suprising me that he is being so lax. He wants to go by the book for everything but so often he spends 10 minutes cathing only to get 150cc so I guess he decided to do it less often. I guess it is one more thing we are going to have ot learn as we go. Personally I hate the 4am cath. I do that one just to be nice But, I will say this, we are not setting an alra, clock to cath anymore so that is a step back to normalcy .

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          • #6
            I have to say that everyone is individual....I don't necesarily always cath as many as 5 times in 24hrs. I can tell when I need to cath and cath accordingly. Sometimes my bladder goes rogue on me(a couple fri nites ago) and I'll cath as many as 5 times in only 4 hrs(YIKES) and sometimes I'll cath as little as 3 times in 24 hrs....It all depends on the individual person.

            ChopperChick, I wouldn't be worried that he didn't cath very many times, I wouldn't even be worried about an OCCASIONAL 600ml cath....but the nurses here don't recommend them to be that high. (This is different than what I was taught in rehab however)...I would be most concerned if they start to get cloudy or start to have sediment in them. The most important thing, as others have mentioned is to keep him hydrated, drink water, or gatorade(as you mentioned he was). I like Propel water, it's flavored, has some of the added benefits of gatorade but isn't quite as potent.
            'Chelle
            L-1 inc 11/24/03

            "My Give-a-Damn's Busted"......

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ergvepeog
              It's important that Mike cath about 5 times in 24 hours. It's also important that he keep himself well-hydrated. If he's well hydrated then his urinary tract works more efficiently. I find that when my husband Don does not drink enough that a UTI is just waiting to happen.
              I agree with Pash... anything over 500cc's is not good ... if Don's bladder gets too full then he just leaks... but with a T6 injury, Mike runs the possible risk of having AD if he gets too full. The risk of AD is not as high as it would be with a higher injury but he still runs the risk.

              ergvepeog is right. ad is a real risk, even if Mike has never experienced it before. ad can start out of the blue.
              I have a T4 injury, and last year ended up in hospital (not needed, but I was terrified) twice, because I suddenly started suffering from ad. The very first time it happened, I had 1.5 litres in my bladder. Yes, you read right - 1500 mls!
              I, like a lot of others, was told not to let my bladder have more than 500mls. But I do got more than that fairly often. I can feel the start of ad if my bladder gets to about 500 - 600 mls..

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              • #8
                In responce to Pash's comment I too only cath when I get the feeling that I need to cath which to me is the same feelling I had prior to SCI. I may cath only four times a day or like Brokenwing sometimes as many as three in as many hours. Sometimes my caths are only around 300 cc and other times they are as high as 700 cc the later being after sleeping.

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                • #9
                  The standard we have is less than 500 cc in each cath. More than that runs the risk of causing back flow to the kidneys and causing a bladder infection by overstretching the bladder wall. Going with that we teach people to pace their fluid intake to around 200 cc/hour (that's less than 1 measuring cup) rather than guzzling a lot of fluid at one time. So IN and OUT have to be in balance. If a person drinks more, he/she should cath more often.

                  RAB
                  The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ChopperChick
                    Thanks for the quick reply. Can you tell me, what are the warning signs?
                    BTW he did void a little last weekend when he was busy and didn't cath.
                    At the begining, my warning signs changed periodically. First there was pounding headaches, then blochy red skin, then goosebumps, and now I get a tingling sensation in my head and arms. The tingling has stayed the same for about a year and a half now. Basically he has to be aware of anything different different going on with his body.
                    ~Ashley~

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                    • #11
                      At the begining, my warning signs changed periodically. First there was pounding headaches, then blochy red skin, then goosebumps, and now I get a tingling sensation in my head and arms. The tingling has stayed the same for about a year and a half now. Basically he has to be aware of anything different different going on with his body.

                      Pash, I pretty much judge my cathing on the exact same body changes you mention.

                      ChopperChick, you might have your husband start trying to see if he can recognize in any way, not the "old" way, when his bladder is full. It might take awhile to figure it out, but his body might be giving some sign when he needs to go.
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                      • #12
                        I cath around every 6 hours, what I was taught in rehab, and go a little longer (around 8) overnight. It seems to work for me. If I cath JUST before I go to sleep I make it to morning. The morning cath is usually around 400cc. I am a little careful about what I drink in the evening. As far as signs, when I am overdue for a cath (either forgetting the time, or just needing to cath more often for whatever reason) I get a tight feeling in my chest and throat. If I ignore it, I will go on to get a headache. I first recognised this for what it was during urodynamics, when the feeling matched higher pressures in my full bladder. The nurse commented on it before I did. (aside: I do have an ileostomy, which may allow me to go longer between caths, as some of the fluid from my body is excreted out that way.)
                        T7-8 since Feb 2005

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                        • #13
                          Sjean, if I am not being too personal, why did you et an ileostomy?

                          You don't need to answer if you don't feel comfortable

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                          • #14
                            No problem,

                            The short version is I had bowel problems right after going to rehab. Everything was stopped up, and then they discovered air in my abdominal cavity, so something had burst. It was emergency surgery, and I guess rather serious, although I didn't realize it at the time. So I was back to ICU. It took over a week before I returned to rehab. It slowed down some things in my rehab, as I was recovering from major abdominal surgery as well as all of the SCI issues. It is reversible, but I have decided against it as long as I am in the chair. (some people w/ SCI actually have a similar surgery done electively, but I am not sure I would recommend going that far) It certainly makes my BP easy ..... just empty the bag and I am done. Kinda a silver lining to the whole mess. And any limitations from it are overshadowed by the limitations of the chair ..... and it's not like I was planning to wear a bikini this summer anyway!
                            T7-8 since Feb 2005

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                            • #15
                              I remember when Mike was injured and they gave me the whole rundown of things, I asked if he was going to have a colostomy and they acted like it was optional. It freaked me out a little but I though if that's the way it has to be than so be it....
                              Thanks for being so candid. I saw you mention it before and saw you rlevel of injury so I was curious.

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