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    Vetericyn tolerance.

    Ive been doing the Vetricyn bladder flushes for 7 or 8 years and the last 2-3 I had things figured out and only getting an infection once a year. 6 months ago I got hit with a nasty infection and was my first time I used a IV antibiotics. As soon as that happened I can?t hold vetericyn in my bladder. During the time I’m taking antibiotics I can do normal flushes but once I’m off it my bladder spasms and pee it out.

    I have seen and been using the getamycn bladder flushes and it has been working. But I can’t do back to back days of vetericyn like I used to. I do the gentamicin ones daily and vetericyn every 5th day. Any sooner and I pee it out. IVe done urine cultures and they come back completely clear with the gentimicin. Normally when I bypass vetericyn it meant a infection was right around the corner but not now. I want to stop these antibiotic bladder flushes as soon as possible cause it only makes sense you’ll come resistance to it in my mind. I wish that study they did was longer than 6 month.

    I get a scope done of my bladder in January, waiting to hear back about getting an appointment for a infectious disease doctor too. I wish I could go back to vetericyn working and staying in my bladder again.

    Just wanted to see if anyone else had this problem. Thanks guys and gals.
    Mark 9:23 - All things are possible for those who believe.

    #2
    Originally posted by dewie27 View Post
    Ive been doing the Vetricyn bladder flushes for 7 or 8 years and the last 2-3 I had things figured out and only getting an infection once a year. 6 months ago I got hit with a nasty infection and was my first time I used a IV antibiotics. As soon as that happened I can?t hold vetericyn in my bladder. During the time I?m taking antibiotics I can do normal flushes but once I?m off it my bladder spasms and pee it out.

    I have seen and been using the getamycn bladder flushes and it has been working. But I can?t do back to back days of vetericyn like I used to. I do the gentamicin ones daily and vetericyn every 5th day. Any sooner and I pee it out. IVe done urine cultures and they come back completely clear with the gentimicin. Normally when I bypass vetericyn it meant a infection was right around the corner but not now. I want to stop these antibiotic bladder flushes as soon as possible cause it only makes sense you?ll come resistance to it in my mind. I wish that study they did was longer than 6 month.

    I get a scope done of my bladder in January, waiting to hear back about getting an appointment for a infectious disease doctor too. I wish I could go back to vetericyn working and staying in my bladder again.

    Just wanted to see if anyone else had this problem. Thanks guys and gals.
    Which Vetericyn product are you using? I have not kept up with Vetericyn since it does not use Microcyn Technology, so I can't speak to those products.

    One thing you might try is diluting the Vetericyn product you are using with some saline and see if that makes it more tolerable for you.

    I have never used the gentamicin irrigation in concert with Microcyn Technology, so I can't speak to interactions that may occur with that.

    I suggest that the urinary tract infection that you have been dealing with may not have been completely cured and you need to have follow up urinalysis (UA) and culture & sensitivity (C&S) tests to validate that no bacteria is lingering in your urinary tract. You may need another course of oral or IV antibiotics. Or you may need to be evaluated for bladder stones if this infection is recurring and frequent presenting with the same bacteria.
    Last edited by gjnl; 20 Sep 2018, 10:38 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      the gent instills have been proven to prevent resistence dwayne. many recent studies done on this. i would not stop them. i do gent instills 2x per day, i mix it with 50cc of hydrocleanse(microcyn) in the morning and regular saline at night. 14 mths no uti and just had my 4th clear normal ultrasound.................
      Originally posted by dewie27 View Post
      Ive been doing the Vetricyn bladder flushes for 7 or 8 years and the last 2-3 I had things figured out and only getting an infection once a year. 6 months ago I got hit with a nasty infection and was my first time I used a IV antibiotics. As soon as that happened I can?t hold vetericyn in my bladder. During the time I’m taking antibiotics I can do normal flushes but once I’m off it my bladder spasms and pee it out.

      I have seen and been using the getamycn bladder flushes and it has been working. But I can’t do back to back days of vetericyn like I used to. I do the gentamicin ones daily and vetericyn every 5th day. Any sooner and I pee it out. IVe done urine cultures and they come back completely clear with the gentimicin. Normally when I bypass vetericyn it meant a infection was right around the corner but not now. I want to stop these antibiotic bladder flushes as soon as possible cause it only makes sense you’ll come resistance to it in my mind. I wish that study they did was longer than 6 month.

      I get a scope done of my bladder in January, waiting to hear back about getting an appointment for a infectious disease doctor too. I wish I could go back to vetericyn working and staying in my bladder again.

      Just wanted to see if anyone else had this problem. Thanks guys and gals.
      Bike-on.com rep
      John@bike-on.com
      c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
      sponsored handcycle racer

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry for the late reply.
        I have submitted 4 different urine sample to get cultured and all four have came back clean. So I don’t know what bug could be left from my last IV antibiotic. The gentamicin seems to be working for now. I used to use Vetericyn VVF and then was told about Microcyn AH and that’s what I switched to 3 years ago because of the cost difference.

        And yes I saw the study saying gentamicin bladder flushes didn’t make the bugs resistant but that study was done for only 6 months and needs to be longer IMO. There possibility’s it can become resistant or “hide” deep into the bladder walls. I wish there was a magic wand for UTIs.

        Thanks for the help guys.
        Mark 9:23 - All things are possible for those who believe.

        Comment


          #5
          Many more studies out there. Gent instills have been used in children for a long time. Have you tried hydrocleanse direct from oculus. Thats what i buy. Best of luck.
          Originally posted by dewie27 View Post
          sorry for the late reply.
          I have submitted 4 different urine sample to get cultured and all four have came back clean. So i don’t know what bug could be left from my last iv antibiotic. The gentamicin seems to be working for now. I used to use vetericyn vvf and then was told about microcyn ah and that’s what i switched to 3 years ago because of the cost difference.

          And yes i saw the study saying gentamicin bladder flushes didn’t make the bugs resistant but that study was done for only 6 months and needs to be longer imo. There possibility’s it can become resistant or “hide” deep into the bladder walls. I wish there was a magic wand for utis.

          Thanks for the help guys.
          Bike-on.com rep
          John@bike-on.com
          c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
          sponsored handcycle racer

          Comment


            #6
            My Dad's neuro-urologist has been using Gentamicin with her patients for many years - more than a decade for sure. Surprising to me as well, she has not seen patients develop resistant UTIs. Neither has my Dad's physiatrist, who is the head of the SCI program and our reputable rehab hospital. She also has patients taper down their use of it over time if they are doing well, while some patients continue it indefinitely. Depends on the patient.

            We have not found infectious disease doctors helpful, except for one time consultations on antibiotic choice. In general, they are not knowledgeable about neurogenic bladder / SCI patients, and are not familiar with bladder instillations.

            It seems that things are going really well for you right now. You only do the Gent instillations once a day and are UTI free. I'm not sure why you are wanting to go back to the more expensive alternative.

            I also hope the group that published that paper will come back with a longer term follow-up paper.

            My Dad has been doing Gent instillations twice a day for 3.5 years without a UTI. Prior to that he had 7 or 8 UTIs in one year and was hospitalized twice for IV antibiotics. So things are much better! He drinks a lot, caths on a schedule during the day to be sure his volumes are good, takes trospium XL twice a day to keep his bladder pressures low, and uses a foley every night so he gets a good night sleep. He used to use Hydrocleanse to activate his hydrophilic catheters. But then he developed some urethera issues with his preferred catheter and changed to a different type of hydrophilic catheter that is less resistant and no longer uses the Hydrocleanse.

            Comment


              #7
              My Dad has been doing Gent instillations twice a day for 3.5 years without a UTI. Prior to that he had 7 or 8 UTIs in one year and was hospitalized twice for IV antibiotics. So things are much better! He drinks a lot, caths on a schedule during the day to be sure his volumes are good, takes trospium XL twice a day to keep his bladder pressures low, and uses a foley every night so he gets a good night sleep. He used to use Hydrocleanse to activate his hydrophilic catheters. But then he developed some urethera issues with his preferred catheter and changed to a different type of hydrophilic catheter that is less resistant and no longer uses the Hydrocleanse.[/QUOTE]

              hlh, I'm curious if he uses a new foley every night? Is your dad on Medicare by any chance? Do they cover both the intermittent catheters and the foley?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jazzd View Post

                hlh, I'm curious if he uses a new foley every night? Is your dad on Medicare by any chance? Do they cover both the intermittent catheters and the foley?

                Yes, he uses a new foley every night. He re-uses collection bags for at least a week or more, washing/bleaching every day. There are several guys on CareCure that are doing this now.

                My Dad is on a Medicare Advantage plan from his employer, so not straight Medicare. I have heard rumors that straight Medicare might cover this with doctor's letter of medical necessity and appeal. It was essential for my father, as he is 75 and waking up 2-3 times enough, confused, needing to cath was too risky for his health and safety. He makes a huge amount of urine at night - often over 2 liters. It was only a matter of time before he fell out of bed while cathing, or got more UTIs from contaminating himself, or was so exhausted during the day from sleep deprivation more medical complications might occur.

                At this point, even if his insurance wouldn't cover it, he would pay for the supplies himself. That's how much it has improved his quality of life. While latex free catheters can get pricey to purchase yourself for nightly use, he would probably just use the silicone coated latex until he developed an allergy. The kind he likes are quite cheap, and totally worth it to him.

                Comment


                  #9
                  great news. i know so many ppl that have been doing gent instills for many many years now. i wish more drs were knowledgeable about this. fully covered by ins in my case, gent is cheap as well. .
                  Originally posted by hlh View Post
                  My Dad's neuro-urologist has been using Gentamicin with her patients for many years - more than a decade for sure. Surprising to me as well, she has not seen patients develop resistant UTIs. Neither has my Dad's physiatrist, who is the head of the SCI program and our reputable rehab hospital. She also has patients taper down their use of it over time if they are doing well, while some patients continue it indefinitely. Depends on the patient.

                  We have not found infectious disease doctors helpful, except for one time consultations on antibiotic choice. In general, they are not knowledgeable about neurogenic bladder / SCI patients, and are not familiar with bladder instillations.

                  It seems that things are going really well for you right now. You only do the Gent instillations once a day and are UTI free. I'm not sure why you are wanting to go back to the more expensive alternative.

                  I also hope the group that published that paper will come back with a longer term follow-up paper.

                  My Dad has been doing Gent instillations twice a day for 3.5 years without a UTI. Prior to that he had 7 or 8 UTIs in one year and was hospitalized twice for IV antibiotics. So things are much better! He drinks a lot, caths on a schedule during the day to be sure his volumes are good, takes trospium XL twice a day to keep his bladder pressures low, and uses a foley every night so he gets a good night sleep. He used to use Hydrocleanse to activate his hydrophilic catheters. But then he developed some urethera issues with his preferred catheter and changed to a different type of hydrophilic catheter that is less resistant and no longer uses the Hydrocleanse.
                  Bike-on.com rep
                  John@bike-on.com
                  c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                  sponsored handcycle racer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by hlh View Post
                    Yes, he uses a new foley every night. He re-uses collection bags for at least a week or more, washing/bleaching every day. There are several guys on CareCure that are doing this now.

                    My Dad is on a Medicare Advantage plan from his employer, so not straight Medicare. I have heard rumors that straight Medicare might cover this with doctor's letter of medical necessity and appeal. It was essential for my father, as he is 75 and waking up 2-3 times enough, confused, needing to cath was too risky for his health and safety. He makes a huge amount of urine at night - often over 2 liters. It was only a matter of time before he fell out of bed while cathing, or got more UTIs from contaminating himself, or was so exhausted during the day from sleep deprivation more medical complications might occur.

                    At this point, even if his insurance wouldn't cover it, he would pay for the supplies himself. That's how much it has improved his quality of life. While latex free catheters can get pricey to purchase yourself for nightly use, he would probably just use the silicone coated latex until he developed an allergy. The kind he likes are quite cheap, and totally worth it to him.
                    Thank you. This is all very useful info. I'm the caregiver for my brother who is total care. Right now we're doing intermittent during the day and condom cath at night. (We have home health aides at night who are not allowed to do cathing) He's also on Macrobid daily, but I'm really going to push for the Gent instillations. Also going to try foleys at night. He, too, urinates a ton during the night, and I can't be sure they're clearing the line as often as they should. These success stories give me hope that I can decrease the uti's without going to the radical surgery our urologist wanted me to consider. Thanks

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Can someone please post some pictures and instructions of what exactly you guys use and what type of syringes you use ETC? Some links with stuff would be helpful as well
                      Basically like giving directions to a five-year-old?
                      I might try this because I have been battling bad UTIs forever even though I have a poiesis medical duette catheter. Right now I'm on amoxicillin three times a day for the next two weeks....
                      C5/C6 Complete since 08/22/09

                      Comment


                        #12
                        ok i use
                        1. 60 cc cath tip syringe. use once and pitch
                        2. 3 vials gent mixed in 100 ml saline- 50cc morning/50cc night. leave in until next reflex void or cath. longer the better
                        all covered by ins. i prefer mixing fresh weekly. vials are good for a year.

                        i get gent from my target cvs pharmacy and saline/ syringes from my uro supplier. 90 day supply at a time. my copay on gent is $30 per 90 days
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                        c4/5 inc funtioning c6. 28 yrs post.
                        sponsored handcycle racer

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks for all the replies and glad others are able to ask good questions. So if there are many others studies of gentamicin bladder flushes where are they? I’m not aware of any others and nor is my urologist. Not saying they don’t exist but we arnt aware of any.

                          I always thought that Microcyn AH and Vetericyn VVF where the same thing but VVF was twice the price. If someone can tell me what’s the difference and where do you order VVF these days.. I have to order some ASAP and need to know where you guys are getting it from. Appreciate the help and great full for this site and members
                          Mark 9:23 - All things are possible for those who believe.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by dewie27 View Post
                            Thanks for all the replies and glad others are able to ask good questions. So if there are many others studies of gentamicin bladder flushes where are they? I’m not aware of any others and nor is my urologist. Not saying they don’t exist but we arnt aware of any.

                            I always thought that Microcyn AH and Vetericyn VVF where the same thing but VVF was twice the price. If someone can tell me what’s the difference and where do you order VVF these days.. I have to order some ASAP and need to know where you guys are getting it from. Appreciate the help and great full for this site and members

                            I don't think there are many other papers publishing well controlled studies of Gentamicin for UTI prevention. We are sharing are personal experiences, and I shared the experiences of my father's physicians, who have been working in the SCI world for a several decades and have been using Gent for years. Honestly, that's a lot more data than exists for Microcyn.

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