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Using Microcyn/Vetericyn for Bladder Wash

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  • #31
    if we're lucky at some point it might get approved to be covered by Medicare?
    The gel for wound care and dermatological problems is already approved by Medicare/Medicaid/Medi-Cal, and I believe, other insurance plans. Reimbursement for the liquid is currently pending before regulatory agencies. Last time I heard, this was on track. I believe it will be the liter size containers. But they have a couple of hoops to jump through, such as, the product must state "sterile" on the label and glass bottles are required. I'm really hoping it clears this year.
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    • #32
      With the gel already approved by Medicare/Medicaid and Medi-cal obviously one would need a prescription to have it paid for but what Medical Supply companies are carrying it?
      Can the gel be used in place of Ky for cathing?
      Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. .(John Wayne)

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      • #33
        With the gel already approved by Medicare/Medicaid and Medi-cal obviously one would need a prescription to have it paid for but what Medical Supply companies are carrying it?
        Can the gel be used in place of Ky for cathing?
        Nancygail gets her prescription delivered from her pharmacy every month, so I assume what she did was ask her doctor to write a prescription and then he stocked her local pharmacy with the product. You can call Oculus Innovative Sciences and ask them if you like.

        Yes, there are those using the gel to replace ky and there have been good results. You just have to experiment to find out what works for you.
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        • #34
          After my MD WROTE

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          • #35
            Sorry keep hitting the wrong key by accident....anyways

            My MD wrote a prescriton for microcyn after seeing the results i had been getting with regular liquid microcyn.

            My insurance ,CARE OREGON ADVANTAGE,contacted OCULUS and found a pharmacy here in oregon that could supply it.The pharmacy is PAYLESS.

            I was told at the time that not all pharmacy's are able to supply it.So, I would have your MD/INSURANCE PROVIDER contact OCULUS to find out which pharmacy in your area can fill the prescription for Microcyn hydrogel.

            I recieved a 6 month supply and order it monthly as needed.

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            • #36
              Hi to all members

              We are percevering with Vetericyn regular but our situation seems to be getting worse rather than better. My husband has been tested and the results show a new infection of E-coli which normally responds reasonably well to D Mannose but it is not doing now. We are continuing with the Vetericyn whilst taking the drug Nitrofirantoin which the doctors said killed the bug very well in the lab. However my husband is not improving at all and the test sticks are getting worse.

              Do we continue with the Vetericyn or hold off until towards the end of the course of antibiotics.

              I am also wondering if my husbands compromised immune system makes it more difficult for the Vetericyn to work

              All ideas and comments would be greatly appreciated.

              Thank you.

              Elizabeth Anne

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              • #37
                Elizabeth--Can you do hour long instillations? Some people have found this to work with the regular formula. And some do use it in conjunction with the antibiotics--it depends on how resistant the bug is. Vetericyn (Microcyn) has a "safe as saline" profile--it's very gentle--so, hopefully he can tolerate the longer instillations.

                Also. some do the instillations lying down and gently rolling from side to side to get better bladder coverage.

                Hoping and praying that he improves soon!

                Susanne
                Last edited by Leila; 03-20-2011, 09:50 AM.
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                • #38
                  Leila - thanks for the advice. We do insert the Vetericyn whilst Martin is lying down and I roll him about gently. As yet we have only built up to seventeen minutes twice per day as I was worried about causing internal damage but we'll have a go at increasing the time and see if there is any improvement.

                  I suppose we are hoping for miracles but, in reality, Martin has had constant infection for about fifteen months now so its going to take some getting rid of.

                  Once again, thank you for your support.

                  Elizabeth

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                  • #39
                    It is only human to hope for miracles, Elizabeth, but in reality, the most we can hope for are hard-won victories. I like the way this woman, who cares for her husband in Toronto, Canada, says it:

                    My hubby does IC's 5-6 x /day. Had a very stubborn case of E-coli. We have found that Vetericyn is not a quick fix, but a tool you need to learn to use to combat these infections. Have been working on finding the best schedule for him for 2 months.
                    At this point, doing bladder flushes 2ce a day with 60ml, urethra flushes every IC and D-mannose every few hrs. is working.
                    Took a long time to weaken the E-coli, but we can finally see the difference now.
                    It's a lot of different procedures to keep track of, but he is feeling good, no hospital visits, and no abx. So its worth it.
                    Hopefully with more time and perseverance, we can space out the times he needs the Vetericyn flushes, but I suspect when you are doing IC's, the bacteria will always be ready to invade. So constant vigilance.
                    (BTW, D-mannose is only effective with E-coli). We are lucky that Vetericyn works against all the other bacteria as well as E-coli.
                    Caregvr
                    Perseverance Elizabeth!
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                    • #40
                      Leila,

                      Thanks for the reply and the quote - it gives us hope. We have had a bad few days because even though the antibiotics got rid of the E-coli, my husband now has Pseudomonas and there are no oral antibiotics that will treat it. I guess this infection has sneaked in whilst his body was flattened by the antibiotics which I am regretting giving to him now but at the time I felt he was deteriorating fast and the Doctor said he must have them. Anyway we are persevering with the bladder flushes as we don't want to have to go to hospital for IV antibiotics and we have now got to thirty minutes twice per day though I think this is causing some urgency with bowel movements. However, my husband says he has no discomfort so we will continue to increase the time daily.

                      Our Urologist wants my husband to change from a foley catheter to a supra pubic one but my husband is hoping that if we have success with the Vetericyn he may be able to revert to intermittent self catheterisation so I guess its a case of wait and see.

                      Hope all is well with you and all who read this thread.

                      Regards.

                      Elizabeth

                      I will report on our progres

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                      • #41
                        Hello everyone..

                        I'm new to the forum and need help!?! I have recently started using Vetericyn as I've been battling infection after infection for the last year and a half! I heard about it from a member of Apparelyzed.com, and after reading this forum decided it could be the answer to my prayers.. On my last test they said I had some kind of pseudonomas..

                        I started off with Vetericyn VF wound and infection treatment 60mls once a day for half an hour to an hour.. On my next purchase I was sent Vetericyn VF Hydrogel instead, which I tried at the same dosage and duration, but it tended to clog the catheter (I have a urethral, permanent, Foley).. So now I do 30mls twice a day, but mix it with 30mls saline solution.. I've been doing this for approximately a month now and I'm not seeing any results.. In fact the infection seems to be getting worse! My question is, how long do I have to treat this before I see any results?

                        My urine is totally rotten! It stinks to high heaven, and comes out in chunks! No kidding! The solid pieces sometimes fill up to half a meter of the catheter tubing! I don't know what to do anymore.. My Urologist refuses to give me any more antibiotics as he says I've had too many, and only gives me saline water to do wash outs with.. He says the chunks are just mucus from the augmentation..

                        I'm DESPERATE!!!
                        It's ok to reflect on yesterday's memories, but it's far better to live for today's joys and tomorrow's dreams..

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                        ;-)

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                        • #42
                          Hi Smiley,

                          I, too, have had battles with pseudomonas.

                          You may have bacteria up in your ureters, in which case the V won't touch it. I had a similar situation with odor, in spite of the V, which I was using every other day. After a course of abx eliminated the bacteria--and odor--I resumed the use of V (40 ccs 1x day) and have remained odor free and crystal clear for six weeks and counting.

                          Do you IC or do you have an indwelling? If ICing you probably need to get some V into the urethra before each cath. How much water do you drink?

                          Hang in there!
                          2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
                          Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature.

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                          • #43
                            Hi Smiley

                            I have not visited the forum for a while so apologies for not spotting your message earlier. My husband has an indwelling foley catheter and has been battling with pseudomonas for some months now. He is totally resistant to all oral antibiotics and so in March we started with the Vetericyn. We have had some success and my husband has slowly improved. He has Multiple Sclerocis and has been in bed most of the time for months but is now able to spend several hours per day in his wheelchair and has started doing his core strength and assisted cycling exercises every day. However, we regularly send urine samples to our local hospital for testing and the pseudomonas is still there. Also, this last couple of days he too has started to get a lot of gunk in his catheter tube and our Doctor is debating whether or not he should have a course of gentomicyn to try and eradicate the bug. We are very reluctant as Martin has improved so much since we have done the 60ml twice daily Vetericyn flushes (1 hour each time).

                            I will let you know what we decide to do and how things work out.

                            If anyone else has any advice or experience, please let us know.

                            Thank you.

                            Elizabeth Anne

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                            • #44
                              hi, I could use some HELP i have had 2 urin tests for UTI in the last 7 days and both have come back neg. i am currently going to the bathroom every 2 hours night and day. i have ultra strong burning night and day. my urin is clear BUT groups of bubbles are present. IS THERE ANY CONDITION THAT IS CAUSING THIS OTHER THAN UTI ?? can a preson have a UTI infection even though urin tests are neg ?? please advise i can sure use help my dr's are useless. thanks poobear

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                              • #45
                                My husband has a SP, and had drug resistant pseudomonas colonized, but also with active flares of it for many months. Nothing oral worked, but IM gent would tamp it down enough to be gunk free for a few weeks, then the cycle would begin again. We finally decided to try Microcyn after reading here about it.

                                Our first experiment was a bust. He took a high dose of IM gent for 7 days (which I did at home), and on the 3rd day of the abx, I started instilling 60 ml of regular liquid Vetricyn 2x a day. After two weeks, took in a sample but it still showed pseudomonas, even though alot of the gunk was now gone from his urine. At that point, I more or less gave up on microcyn/vetericyn until Leila/Susanne pointed out the experiences of others with drug-resistant pseudomonas, and their success with Vetricyn VF, which is simply a stronger formulation of Vetricyn (=Microcyn =Puracyn).

                                So I repeated the experiment the same way again by used Vetricyn VF instead of regular Vetricyn. I did IM gent for 7 days, on the 3rd day of gent, I started the Vetricyn VF bladder installations through his SP tube. I put in 60 ml 2x a day for 30 mins per time, but sometimes he could only hold it in for a few minutes, and sometimes I could only put in 20 mL before he'd become too uncomfortable to put in more. So it wasn't a perfectly strict regimen that never varied, but the basic goal was to 1) always put it in at least 2x a day, in whatever amount he could tolerate, up to 60 ml for up to 30 mins, and 2) to wash it around his bladder by rolling him side to side quite a bit while it was in.

                                Lo and behold, after 3 weeks of this, took in a sample and pseudmonas was GONE. As in totally gone gone, not even colonized at low levels. That was many months ago, and he's had a number of other UTIs in the meantime, but they have all been bugs other than pseudmonas, and they respond to antibiotics. We are considering having me flush his bladder every day with Vetricyn VF just to stave off future infections since he still regularly gets UTIs about once a month (and the bug is nearly always klebsiealla, for whatever that's worth).

                                So that's my experience with Chad. One last thing to note - after a few days on Vetricyn VF, I changed his SP catheter tube, on the theory that maybe some pseudomonas would be stuck to it and hide out that way. I have no idea if this helped in any way, but thought I'd mention it.

                                I am just tremendously grateful that the pseudomonas is gone because that can be a lethal infection.
                                Wife of Chad (C4/5 since 1988), mom of a great teenager

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