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Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

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    Hi Capn,

    I am not sure about the tone of your reply, do you think I am against the use of Microcyn based solutions?

    As for being surprised about their reaction, were you sarcastic, meaning that I should know better than expect an explanation as to why their solution is stable? I get answers from pharmaceutical companies all the time as to why their products acts like this or that, they have nothing to fear if they have a patent on the process. We are not talking about the details of the "how to" here, just the gist of it would have been enough to enlighten us.

    As to the thread you are referring to, thanks for reminding me about it, I just went back to it and saw that some posted other comments after my last one (May 25th, 2006!), I was not even aware of those. But where do you want to go by bringing that thread? Is it about when Bob was asking if a safer solution than peroxide could be found to flush the bladder?

    Anyway, when I talk about being cautious, I am not talking about some flushes to get rid of an infection but about daily use. I am just saying that it's hard to know what 20 years of irrigation with that could bring. Again, 20 years of being infected is no better ... so everyone pick his own poison

    BTW, although I am a pharmacist, I am not on the side of "big pharma", I don't profit from the sale of drugs (working in public long term care and happy to save on my budget when I can).
    Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

    Comment


      Hi everyone,

      Can't say much right now--preparing for a trip to San Francisco so our son can see the specialist.

      I have contacted a microbiologist/chemist with expertise in microcyn technology. He stated that there is no similarity between microcyn and either diluted bleach or chlorinated water. Tests done on human tissue exposed to microcyn showed elevated levels of oxygen, but no chlorine or cpb's.

      Worrying about getting bladder cancer by using microcyn is like worrying about getting struck by lightening if you go outside on a sunny day.

      And I am NOT a sales rep.

      There's more to tell,

      Leila
      I'm back on Facebook again--up and running!

      http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...00000532232573

      Comment


        Originally posted by Leila View Post
        Worrying about getting bladder cancer by using microcyn is like worrying about getting struck by lightening if you go outside on a sunny day.
        Hi Leila, just saying so doesn't make it so. I have no good reason beside what I said to fear bladder cancer from using it on a daily basis, but what facts do you have to always be so assertive in your comments. Come on, I am happy to use it and learn about it, but just saying don't worry it's just fine is not going to convince anyone that want facts. And if you read what I wrote, I never said it was ONLY diluted bleach, please.

        I am just tired of hearing it's very different and so on. How is it so different, bring on the chemist. We want to learn, does it have any active ingredients beside what I stated?
        Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

        Comment


          Originally posted by JGNI View Post
          Our technology is patent protected by 11 issued patents and 140+ pending applications. Part of our intellectual property portfolio covers our unique stability, so my apologies for not describing in detail our methods of stabilizing our unique and proprietary compound.
          This is a big red flag to me. If they are adding a preservative to stabilize the formula, I'd want to know exactly what that preservative is. And like you said, if they've patented the technique, they are protected. Will they provide us with the patent numbers? If so, we can just look up the patents at http://uspto.gov . The patent numbers might even be listed on their packaging. I'd be quite interested to see them. If the patents are pending we should at least be allowed to know at least what the title of the patent is, given that we're using their product to treat our bodies!

          If they won't willingly provide the patent numbers via email that's a huge sign to me that there is something fishy with their formulation.

          Comment


            no patent # on the labeling of vetericyn but after the results I have experienced I have no fear of using it...as far as ingredients listed...electrolyzed water (h20)(99.97%),sodium chloride (NaCI)(0.023%), sodium hypochlorite (NaOCI)(O.004%) &hypochlorous acid (HOCI)
            (0.003%)....typed as written on the label...

            Leila, I hope I didn't offend with my sales rep remark, that was not what I intended...you just had so much info...I appreciate you posting this very much! Have a safe trip and I pray your son improves... Seeing what it has done for jen jen and CapnGimp gave me the courage to give it a try!

            Comment


              leila, is this person a microbiologist or a chemist?? very rare to be both. i bought some and will bring it to my research advisor and see what the team says.

              there is so much more crap in regular tap H2O that can potentially give us cancer that 1 more product that may work wont hurt.
              "Smells like death in a bucket of chicken!"
              http://www.elportavoz.com/

              Comment


                Originally posted by madmaddmother View Post
                no patent # on the labeling of vetericyn but after the results I have experienced I have no fear of using it...as far as ingredients listed...electrolyzed water (h20)(99.97%),sodium chloride (NaCI)(0.023%), sodium hypochlorite (NaOCI)(O.004%) &hypochlorous acid (HOCI)
                (0.003%)....typed as written on the label...
                Thanks for typing this all in! The question we still have is how the solution is stabilized. Normally, EOW will break down rather quickly after it is created. This is why hotels that use EOW as a cleaning solution will purchase the machines that produces it. They will make a new batch of it every day and use it immediately.

                The contents as listed on the bottle may be accurate when the product is first shipped, but they must be doing something to stabilize the solution or it would quickly become inert. This was the question JGNI posed to Oculus but they wouldn't provide an answer do to intellectual property concerns. I think they must be adding a preservative that prevents the solution from breaking down, but it's hard to say.

                Nonetheless, I'd be willing to give it a try and see if I can produce at least some anecdotal results.

                Comment


                  Judy, am I correct in remembering that you're currently using Vetericyn for wound care? I'd have no worries about that, either, as that is the intended use for the product.

                  At this point, though, doing bladder flushes with it is still an off-label use for the product. Based on what Leila has posted, her information appears to have come primarily from one doctor using Vetericyn, one microbiologist/chemist, and a lot of anecdotal evidence. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.) All of their findings may be rock solid, and we certainly have glowing testimonials from Jen and the Capn, but no one's been using the product internally for long enough to determine if there are risks (like an increased chance of bladder cancer, even if it's a small one) associated with daily, long-term use.

                  I really appreciate JGNI's and Lazlo's efforts to determine if there might be long-term risks, and it troubles me that there seems to be a growing impatience and terseness toward those asking questions before they drink the koolaid (or put it in their bladders).
                  It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.

                  ~Julius Caesar

                  Comment


                    I got food poisoning the other morning. BAD. I do not have the ability to throw up since sci, the muscles don't work. So I lay around until the stuff makes it trip all the way through. So very NOT comfortable. Anywho... as I was lying here wishing I was someone else, I thought about the vetericyn. I also thought about killing all my friendly critters in my gut, not good. So I sprayed a few times in back of my throat and wallowed.
                    I went to sleep shortly thereafter and awoke no longer sick but weak as snot, for the next day also. Typical food poisoning reaction for me EXCEPT I would have be4en sick for a LOT longer.

                    The Vetericyn knocked out whatever was in my stomach in short order. Another use for the MaJik WaWa. This was a few days ago. I did not get diarrhea but the back of my throat had the hot pins and needles feel when I tried to swallow food about 6 hours after taking it. That went away a few hours later. Do not know if t was related to the spray or what. I'd never had that happen before.
                    It saved me about 24 hours of suffering with the "hug commode and puke" feeling and I did not get the usual diarrhea afterwards.

                    For the record, over the years when a doc wouldn't give abx for a UTI, I flushed my bladder with H2O2, H2O2 diluted with water, Listerine, listerine diluted with water, and Equate brand mouthwash. So I did this to kill infection/weaken it, when I was sick, flank pain and slugs of what looked like blood draining from hamburgers when you cook them, after it turns brown, not when red. Yes, the urologist said I had no uti, lol. That was the last time I went to him. For posterity, I flushed with mouthwash, 80cc at a time, shook it around in me and let it sit while I took a shower. I did this tic a day for 2 days until I was no longer sick and then MY body finally beat it in it's own. I only had to take abx about 2x a year fr uti's while a vegan, eventually, my immune system would win after about a week and a half.

                    You might call me crazy, I just hat it takes, lol.
                    Now you can understand my happiness at owning Vetericyn

                    https://www.facebook.com/john.baxter.1213986

                    Comment


                      All I can think of is all the damage done by abx in the sci pop for years. Think fluoroquinolones and connective tissue damage. I won't even begin to mention all the other unsafe dope they hand out.

                      https://www.facebook.com/john.baxter.1213986

                      Comment


                        It's starting to sound like a wonder drug after all these testimonials of different uses. Maybe we should inject it into the spinal cord, it will cure us for sure j/k
                        Please donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org.
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                        Comment


                          CapnGimp...just "got" MaJik WaWa....hahaha, thats what I've been calling it too...lol

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by thehipcrip View Post
                            Judy, am I correct in remembering that you're currently using Vetericyn for wound care? I'd have no worries about that, either, as that is the intended use for the product.

                            At this point, though, doing bladder flushes with it is still an off-label use for the product. Based on what Leila has posted, her information appears to have come primarily from one doctor using Vetericyn, one microbiologist/chemist, and a lot of anecdotal evidence. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.) All of their findings may be rock solid, and we certainly have glowing testimonials from Jen and the Capn, but no one's been using the product internally for long enough to determine if there are risks (like an increased chance of bladder cancer, even if it's a small one) associated with daily, long-term use.

                            I really appreciate JGNI's and Lazlo's efforts to determine if there might be long-term risks, and it troubles me that there seems to be a growing impatience and terseness toward those asking questions before they drink the koolaid (or put it in their bladders).
                            from my point of view, i think it's part of my desensitizing from science. especially when you hang out with biochemists where some just study all the different ways things can go wrong that lead to death. so eventually you just go "meh...." it is great to be inquisitive, which is why i bought some and will bring it to the lab. yay for being nerdy with fancy tools!
                            "Smells like death in a bucket of chicken!"
                            http://www.elportavoz.com/

                            Comment


                              Good crypticgimp!

                              I would like to make myself clear here since I am still not sure of the interpretation that some are making of what I wrote until now.

                              For me when I look at a suggested solution for a problem I am interested in 3 things:

                              1- Does it work?
                              2- How?
                              3- Is it safe?

                              Answers for now for the use of Vetericyn/Dermacyn in bladder related issues (decolonization, prevention and cure of UTI's):

                              1- Some members are saying it works for them or relatives and apparently a urologist is using it with a "100%" success rate, but we have no control studies yet to prove it.

                              2- Active ingredients, hypochlorite and hypochlorous acid, nothing else as far as I know. As for the posology, some suggestions like every day flush to prevent infection, twice a day flushes to treat ... again anecdotal and will stay as such until there are studies, if ever.

                              3- It seems safe on wounds, as for bladder instillations who knows, nobody can say it is or it isn't for now, and the company will certainly not tell you it is since it's off label and has not been tested as such even though they did some toxicology tests that are described here.

                              Now, when I said I was cautious with it's daily use, I am talking for MYSELF, I am not trying to prevent others from doing it.

                              When I wonder if there is anything else in there than what we know, I am not saying that if it was pH adjusted diluted bleach it would be wrong, for all I care it could be diluted orange juice with a hint of melon extract and I would be happy if it does the trick.

                              Will I try it if I get a UTI, of course I will, it doesn't mean I don't want more information about it and that I am right.

                              Hope it's clear now.
                              Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

                              Comment


                                JGNI, Yout put it well. I'm right there with you. I'll definitely try the stuff and I hope it works as people say it will. But my skeptic's mind still wants to fully understand it all.

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