Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

[caregvr]

http://www.vetericyn.com/locator/
I have checked this site to see if there are any local places to pick it up. Unfortunately, there is only 1 place on this side of the border and it is an hour away, and has only the regular blue bottles.
The other places are several hours away and across the border. Can't get there.
Big Als has been delivering the regular V within 2 business days, so my best bet right now is to keep bugging them to offer the VF.

[Kinshin]

guys,
if anyone interested to stack up VVF 16 oz, this looks like good deal. looking all over the net to find deals for VVF. so far petstruly then sometimes on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200575084031&ssPageNam e=STRK:MESELX:IT

for 2 bottles !!!

[Scaper1]

In Toronto? That seems really strange. It should be in most pet supply/ horse-related stores. Or at least orderable through them. Maybe the store locator is incomplete.

[Scaper1]

guys,
if anyone interested to stack up VVF 16 oz, this looks like good deal. looking all over the net to find deals for VVF. so far petstruly then sometimes on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200575084031&ssPageNam e=STRK:MESELX:IT

for 2 bottles !!!

I'm not sure I'd trust this seller - she told me that freezing would make the product more potent when I emailed to ask about it.

[WPDaggy]

Hey dewie,

JGNI is correct about the resistance, but Leila is right, too. The microbes will adapt. Though it can be expensive, I believe you need to get this current infection under control, then be diligent in using the V on a daily, or, every other day at most, basis. I got complacent and I now have a bacteria count of 100,000 plus of pseudomonas, which is resistant to all oral abx, and many IV abx. My ID doctor doesn't want to treat right now because I'm asymptomatic. We're going to do some other things.

I'm going back to a daily regimen of the VF. It helped when I was on top of it. Once under control I'll tinker with my routine, but I won't go more than every other day without it again.

Leila-- my ID doc says that eventually the bugs will adapt to the Microcyn. Could you comment on that please.

[nancygail]

dewie27-Yes listen to LEILA.I instill 30 ml of vetericyn vf everyday and have not had an infection since using it.Initialy I used 60 ml twice a day for about 2 weeks.

[dewie27]

yeah Leila looking back I was slacking with VF and I'm only hurting myself.
And yes I originally bought the regular Vetericyn but I did upgrade to the VF from MediVet.
OK my plan was to change the foley today anyways so all bugs are killed when I'm off the AB. And my first dose of VF tonight also, I was doing 60ml for 30min before so holding 30ml everyday shouldn't effect my bowels.

So in your opionion how long should I use VF everyday, once the AB is done in a week? a month, a year, forever? And how long Leila should I use the 60ml twice a day? I just need to know I only have 2 bottles and should stock up on it. I see for most people they use it once a week for maintaince once the big bugs are killed.

[Leila]

Leila-- my ID doc says that eventually the bugs will adapt to the Microcyn. Could you comment on that please.

I assume he means that the bugs will eventually become resistant, just as they do with abx and almost all antiseptics, including chlorhexidine and dilute bleach. He needs to have an in-service done with Oculus so that he can educate himself and come to understand why this is not the case.

When the neutrophils of our immune system attack a microbe, they release hypochlorous acid, which then ionizes into ClO, which has a negative charge. These ions cluster around the pathogen and then break though its outer wall. This is called lysis, or oxidatvie burst. It's sometimes called ionic assault. The negative ion released from the hypochlous acid is drawn to the positive charge in the nucleus of the pathogen. There's no way the pathogen can defend itself once surrounded. This works against all kinds of pathogens, viruses included. If it were not for this arm of the immune system, we would all die of the flu when we come down with it.

What MIcrocyn does is release a lot of hypochlorous acid to bring in extra troops for the battle. It's just that simple.

What is not so simple is learning to use Microcyn products skillfully. It takes a different attitude--a different mind-set. We're all used to 60 years of antibiotics just magically working without us having to do a thing. And so we've become a little spoiled. Now that abx are becoming increasingly ineffective (the rates of resistance are accelerating), we have to be far more pro-active about healing ourselves. That's the way you have to approach using Microcyn products--pro-actively, on your toes, doing for yourself instead of just having it done for you. It's a different approach.

And it's not always easy. My husband and I did not find it easy as we worked through problems that came up, eventually coming to understand how best to use Microcyn. It's a learning curve.

And you have to understand that a microbial colony is a living organism that experiences the onslaught of Microcyn as a form of "stress." It will fight against this, so you have to be very persistant until it is sufficiently weakened for the immune system to finish it off. It can take time, but the microbes cannot win if you are persistant. They do not have the machinery programmed into their DNA to resist oxidative burst. That's why they can't become resistant. They do have it programmed in their DNA to develop ways to become resistant to abx. This is because abx were derived from microbes in the first place. Microbes are highly competitive against one another and put out a kind of antibiotic to kill one another off. So they have the machinery to protect themselves from this already in place. When we use abx, it's like trying to fight them on their own turf with their own weapon. Eventually they are going to be able to completely overcome this weapon. It's happening now, sort of in slow motion, which is why a lot of people don't recognize it. But superbugs are here to call our bluff, so now is a good time to start developing alternative methods.

If you already have a UTI, using Microcyn with antibiotics is a good idea in the beginning, if the microbes are not yet completely resisistant. It's like giving the microbes the double whammy. Then, when things are under control, you can learn to use Microcyn in a preventative way. In the long run, this is going to cut way down on the amount of abx you have to use, and this is a really good thing.

But you can never let your guard down. You have to remain pro-active if you want to beat these chronic infections.

It can be done. I know those who do it very well--but they all went through a period of trial and error.

Using Microcyn products in this way is like being on a frontier. We are making a path that can help save the lives of others. That's what inspires me most and keeps me going no matter how difficult my advocacy may sometimes be.

[nancygail]

Thank You Leila!.....also it is stated on the oculus site that microcyn "does not facilitate bacterial resistance"

[Leila]

That's right Nancy. Here's one of many articles that go into it. (Just scroll down to the little animation "Fighting the Superbugs" if you don't want to read the whole thing):

http://www.oculusis.com/us/technology/mrsa/

[dewie27]

my plot thickens guys.
I went to the ER today cause I still felt sick still. I had my pee test done and they said there was no change in the bugs! The doc told me to stop sulftrim and try macrobid cause they are the only AB pills that work for this bug. When I first got home from the hospital from my injury my Uro put me one once daily macrobid for maintaince which was a horrible thing to do. So I doubt macrobid will work, but I hope it will.

Before my bladder could hold 60cc of VF for 30min, yesterday I installed 60cc and I got AD and all the VF bypassed my cath and I pee'ed it all out. So I tried 30cc yesterday and today and the same thing. Is my bladder infected so bad it rejects the VF??

I just tried the VF, my blood pressure before was 107 0ver 64.. After about 3min of VF in bladder it spiked to 168 over 105!! Good ol AD

[gjnl]

my plot thickens guys.
I went to the ER today cause I still felt sick still. I had my pee test done and they said there was no change in the bugs! The doc told me to stop sulftrim and try macrobid cause they are the only AB pills that work for this bug. When I first got home from the hospital from my injury my Uro put me one once daily macrobid for maintaince which was a horrible thing to do. So I doubt macrobid will work, but I hope it will.

Before my bladder could hold 60cc of VF for 30min, yesterday I installed 60cc and I got AD and all the VF bypassed my cath and I pee'ed it all out. So I tried 30cc yesterday and today and the same thing. Is my bladder infected so bad it rejects the VF??

Hi "Dewie27,"
I don't have an infection and I am not colonized. I have been going along like clockwork, instilling 20cc of (VVF) Vetercyn VF (25 minutes) for weeks. Last night, I instilled the 20cc of VVF and within 10 minutes, I was in quite a sweat to the point I drenched my sleeping shirt. Drained the bladder after 10 minutes, changed my shirt and things settled down to a dull roar. Took about 3 hours for me to feel "normal." I will try again tonight and see how things go. It is frustrating not knowing what is going on in instances like that.

All the best,
GJ

[Leila]

I think there are two different things going on between Dewie and GJ. Dewie is definitely infected and GJ is not even colonized. So we have to kind of view them in a different light.

GJ--since you are not colonized you could probably switch to regular Vetericyn and maintain bladder hygiene. But it would be necessary to use 60 cc daily, because, as you pointed out, volume matters. You need to cover as large an area of the bladder surface as possible. 25 minutes sounds fine. Remember, regular Vetericyn has 80 parts per million of free active chlorine whereas the VVF has 150. That's quite a jump. Maybe you're just getting more than you need.

Dewie--you could try diluting the VF with one quarter sterile water or sterile saline. Try to get the formula down to 125. (the math evades me at the moment) that's a lot stronger than 80 but not as strong as 150. See if that helps. Studies show that 125 can perform just as well as 150. So play with it and see if you can get that level of potency. Of course, you can always drop down to the 80 and use it twice a day--every twelve hours. that's another option that may work for you.

[Leila]

the problem seems to be with the formula being used, even though these are two different problems because GJ is not even colonized and Dewie is defintely infected.

GJ--you could probably drop down to regular Vetericyn--which is 80 ppm FAC. But you should use 60 cc because, as you pointed out, volume matters. 25 minutes sounds fine--or you could slowly increase to up to an hour. But I don't think you need the 150 ppm FAC (VVF) because you are clean. It may just be more than you need.

Dewie--I would dilute the VVf with about one quarter sterile water or sterile saline. Shoot for 125 ppm FAC--which is a lot more than regular V but not as strong as VVF. See if that helps. If you're still getting AD, try using the regular V twice a day, 60 cc, for at least 20 minutes. You can build up to that slowly if need be. You need to experiment with this and test it out to see what works for you.

The very best to both of you,

Susanne

[WPDaggy]

Thanks for the detailed response, Leila!